removing and installing a 318 in '70 Fury...and fuel economy

[PM27G0D]

I'm new on this site, because my C body specific knowledge is somewhat lacking. I've had a lot more experience with B bodies and some with E bodies.
I have a '70 318 Fury convertible with factory A/C, (dead for years of course..contemplating the Sanden/134a conversion for efficiency) that I'm contemplating taking on my "bucket list" tour of the entire length of Route 66.
It's a fairly decent unrestored car with about 125k miles, but was apparently driven only on short trips and not so regular oil changes...deep sludge visible through the oil filler cap. It runs pretty smooth, but the valve seals are leaking, so I'm contemplating a full rebuild with possibly some slight internal variations from stock inside, but only ones that will improve gas mileage.
I've never seen or been involved with pulling an engine out of a C body. With the Bs, I've been doing it the factory way lately, and taking them out and putting them in mounted on the crossmember, from the bottom. I don't know if that is even possible, or practical on a C.
How would you guys recommend removing this 318 for a rebuild...and what sort of time would you allow to do it? And any ideas on increasing fuel economy?
thanks for any insights you might have....

 

[MrMoparCHP]

You can remove the Stub frame on a C-body but it is much bigger that the K-member that you are use to.
The Factory Service Manual outlines the procedure.

On the AB&E you pull the torsion bars, upper control arms and shocks then it is just the 4-bolts and the trans crossmember

On a C-body there is at least a dozen bolts just for the frame another dozes screws for the wheel liners. Good thing the torsion bars and upper control arms can stay.

Once seperated that assembly probably weighs twice as much as it would in a AB or E

Here is a view of it removed

and another

No idea what else may be involved, bumpers etc but the factory service manual may better outline it.


Welcome aboard

Alan

 

[PM27G0D]

Thanks for the info...since I'm not doing a total restoration...just an engine rebuild, do you think it would be easier to just remove the hood and pull just the engine out from the top? I have an engine hoist.

 

[Wollfen]

I will say that yes, remove the hood and go that route, lift the engine out. To pull the stubframe will take a lot more work as you will need to unbolt not only the frame but the inner fenders, the front bumper bar assy, front radiator support. Disconnect the drive shaft and speedometer cable as well as the linkage for the gearshift too. The list goes on. Taking the engine out will only require you removing the radiator, disconnect all lines and hoses and wiring as well as unbolt it form the transmission, all of which you have to do anyway. Plus unbolt the engine mounts of course.

 

[PM27G0D]

Yeah...I think I'll go for the ol' "shade tree" method this time....

 

[66/440]

Welcome! As Alan outlined it really is not different from the other mopars with K frames jut that everything is on a larger scale and there are lots of smaller bolts and brackets mostly related to the fender liners. Will initially require a little more patience because there always seems to be just one more 3/8 or 7/16 sheet metal screw. However it is a great way to get everything detailed and looking great for your RT 66 pilgrimage. It is nice that the transmission is fully supported in a stub frame unlike
the K frames.
Oh and BTW it is not going to be as easy to find parts as it is for A,B &E's. It is really more like it was in the 80's or early 90's when everything had disappeared from the salvage yards and there was non really anyone supporting mopar parts. They are there you just gotta look AND pay the price.
I did the sanden conversion on a mid 80's Dodge truck and it is working very well. I can give you a couple of tips when you get ready to start. Contact me before you buy a kit I may be able to shed some light on a couple of sources.

 

[68Bigred]

Id say pull from the top. Had my 440 out in a few hours by myself. If not planning on painting the k member and such yank from the top. No different then b body.

 

[PM27G0D]

Thanks for the Sanden info. I've found a couple of places online that sell entire "kits" to replace everything under the hood on a factory A/C car, which mine is. I emailed one of them and asked if their 'no modications required at all" kit for a '70 318 would also be applicable to a C body. I didn't get a very reassuring answer on that. What I'll have to do is get out my '70 parts book and compare the various AC components and engine brackets to see if C body parts and B body parts are the same in those areas...for a given engine.

 

[66/440]

Thanks for the Sanden info. I've found a couple of places online that sell entire "kits" to replace everything under the hood on a factory A/C car, which mine is. I emailed one of them and asked if their 'no modications required at all" kit for a '70 318 would also be applicable to a C body. I didn't get a very reassuring answer on that. What I'll have to do is get out my '70 parts book and compare the various AC components and engine brackets to see if C body parts and B body parts are the same in those areas...for a given engine.

Here is a conversion on a 318 that I did.


No real problems, but I can tell you you will need some extra spacers of different thicknesses to make everything align.

 

[Wollfen]

You could go original and put a rebuilt AC pump back in?
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/...59/5890675-P?navigationPath=L1*14922|L2*15015

 

[PM27G0D]

The purist side of me would do that...like I did on my '70 Challenger...R12 and all. But I plan to drive this car a LOT, so the better efficiency, lighter weight and ease of getting 134a wins out in this case. Plus, I suspect...since it appears this system has not worked in years, if not decades, that I'd end up replacing the lines and most of the underhood components anyway, even if I used an RV2 compressor. I just hope the underdash part is all ok!

 

[Wollfen]

We need to see pics of this beast! and you collection too. ;) Show me yours and I'll show you mine. ccasion14:

 

[twostick]

Depending on how carried away you want to get with the economy mods, you could switch the top end of the motor over to Magnum heads but that requires changing some valvetrain parts and using a Magnum intake or modifying an LA one. The easiest would be to find a complete 5.2 or 5.9 Magnum and build and install. This gets you a roller cam in the bargain.

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/mopp-0409-318-engine-build/

The best LA head for mileage and power would be the 302 casting that came on IIRC 86 and newer 318's before they went to the Magnum. They need a fair amount of work to get the most out of them, larger valves and porting. The Magnum really is the best cake and eat it too option as far as factory stuff goes.

After you get the engine buttoned up, you could find an A500 OD trans and install. It's a 904 based trans and I don't think it requires any/as much tunnel mods to fit. The rear crossmember will still need mods to fit. If you intend to beat on it a lot then you should go with the 518 trans. It's 727 based and I think the OD section is a little broader across the shoulders and may need at the very least a BFH to clearance the tunnel.

Now you put a set of 3.55's or 3.73's in the back and it will get rolling much easier and still cruise at a nice RPM. Both are good for economy, win win.

Kevin

 

[PM27G0D]

I don't want to get crazy on this. If I could do some relatively simple things during the rebuild...like perhaps a more efficient cam, if there is one...anything that could be done to the original heads...Pertronix ignition, that sort of thing. I'd be happy if I could get it up to the 18-19mpg on the highway that I remember these 318s doing back in the good old days.
It does around 13-14 now, before I discovered the carb was leaking. Bad valve seals, about 125k miles, full of sludge, low oil pressure, and surely the intake crossover is plugged, so there's hopefully a good bit of room for improvement.

 

[MrMoparCHP]

My factory stock 318/727 gets 17+ and it has 90,000 (original) miles on it.

Stock cam, Holley 2-bbl carb.

I just used the Mopar orange box and a replacement distributor from the local auto store, no need for Pertronix.

The closser to stock you keep it the better your gas mileage will be.


Alan

 

[MrMoparCHP]

Oh and leave the intake crossover plugged or use a blockoff gasket.

The modern gas boils off at a lower temp, yes it may take a little longer for the choke to work.


Alan

 

[BIGBARNEYCARS]

Go the Magnum route with the FI set up. Much easier to achieve your MPH goalz if you ditch the carb. Hook up with Murray Park and have him deliver you a 276 open pumkin to Carlisle and you'll have your 20+ MPG. Just keep in mind that speed and MPG can be a double edged sward, and that 4000 lb C-bodyz were never designed to be street brawlerz.

 

[commando1]

Or, remove the hood, pull the engine the way it's been done 10 bazillion times. With a cherry picker.
Then a normal rebuild...
You guys are throwing him overboard into the ocean when all he wanted was to soak his feet.

 

[PM27G0D]

The good news is that is already has a 2.76 open rear...and I really like the way it cruises at highway speed with that. I have no desire or need for big power in this thing, as I have other cars for that. I love the smooth, quiet way a good 318 hauls a C body down the road at cruise. If I could get 17mpg at reasonable highway speeds on today's regular fuel, I'd be okay with that. I have to think that this motor is so loose at this point, that a stock rebuild will improve the efficiency significantly. It might be fun check compression on it now, out of curiosity. It runs very smoothly with no vibration or misses, so I'm thinking at least the wear is fairly evenly dispersed.
I also hear conflicting information about hardened valve seats for unleaded fuel. Would a 70 318 have them, and if not, is it something I can get the machine shop to do during the head work?

 

[66/440]

The good news is that is already has a 2.76 open rear...and I really like the way it cruises at highway speed with that. I have no desire or need for big power in this thing, as I have other cars for that. I love the smooth, quiet way a good 318 hauls a C body down the road at cruise. If I could get 17mpg at reasonable highway speeds on today's regular fuel, I'd be okay with that. I have to think that this motor is so loose at this point, that a stock rebuild will improve the efficiency significantly. It might be fun check compression on it now, out of curiosity. It runs very smoothly with no vibration or misses, so I'm thinking at least the wear is fairly evenly dispersed.
I also hear conflicting information about hardened valve seats for unleaded fuel. Would a 70 318 have them, and if not, is it something I can get the machine shop to do during the head work?

Your '70 318 will not have hardened seats. Machine/head shop can install as set (their pressed in)