Replacement Aftermarket Camshaft for 383-4 and 440HP engines

[saforwardlook]

In the past, when discussing what replacement camshaft to use in these engines when having them rebuilt came up. At the time, my engine rebuilder was unable to come up with the proper number for some reason but he did say it was a Comp Cam.

Well, I am currently having one of my 440 HP engines rebuilt by another rebuilder that is the best one I could find in Southern California and the cam being used is one made by Comp Cams.

Herein is the part number for the cam and its applications...............................

Amazon product ASIN B000P5D9XA
This cam will provide the same good idle quality and the same good low end torque that the original engines also achieved so I am going ahead with it in my current 440HP rebuilds. I am also pretty sure it is the same Comp Cam the first rebuilder used as well and in those cars the engines felt just like original. The engine has been acid dipped to remove all corrosion in the block and machined and painted so it shouldn't be too much longer before it will be ready to go. It will be broken in on a dynamometer under varying load and speed conditions and even full throttle load near the end of the break-in cycle.

So I will need to hustle to get the rest of the first of two cars restored. My first one should be back from the body/paint shop by the middle of next month and I will provide some photos of the painted rolling shell when it returns. It is a triple white 1970 Chrysler 300 2 dr. hardtop. The next one to go to the body/paint shop will be a 1971 Chrysler 300 that is triple black.

 

[Imperial Pete]

Steve,
In my opinion it is imperative that the engine builder checks the lobe taper and the taper on the lifters. If you have some NOS Chrysler/Mopar lifters in your parts shelves use them. Avoid using Comp Lifters, use USA made Hylift Johnson Lifters (Blue and white box). There has been a lot of flat tappet failures in the last few years. Also the "Honey" type of lube that the cam suppliers provide these days in my opinion is half the issue. The grey Molybond paste/grease is what I have used and never had a lobe issue. Not trying to tell your engine builder how to do his job, just would not like to see a freshly built numbers matching engine be damaged.

 

[detmatt]

I’m sure not everybody has issues with comp parts but I have so never again, Once bitten twice shy.
It was their lifters, they began to not hold pressure or even “pump up” within the first 500 miles.

 

[MEV]

A note, the "hy-lift" johnson lifters are not the same as the original "johnson" lifters you should use. The real johnson, made in usa lifters are found in the link below. There was/is some kind of legal faff, and the hy-lift lifters are not the same as the original johnsons, now a completely separate company.

Home

 

[CBODY67]

Thanks for that link to "The Real Johnson Lifters"! Typically, the bad thing about mix 'n match cam and lifter brands is that should anything happen to the cam, if you didn't buy the lifters from the cam company, they can opt to not honor their warranty. Not unlike an OEM not honoring an engine warranty if the OEM's brand of oil filter was not used at oil change time. From the price in the Amazon/Jegs link, I would hope that price included lifters, too.

Enjoy!
CBODY67

 

[saforwardlook]

Thanks guys for all the cautionary inputs. My rebuilder also has mentioned to me that he will be using special lifters and a bunch of other upgrades to the engine and he prefers special break in lubricants. Honestly, he is a little crazy since he will not allow any helpers in his shop since he wants to know for sure that every bearing clearance is right where it should be and his stash of parts is incredible. His shop is immaculate. If he goes home at night and realizes he didn't put away even one of his tools in the right place in his tool boxes, he has to go back to the shop and put it/them away and then he can go to sleep. He showed me how the engine assembly has to spin by hand when the block is assembled for him to be satisfied and he will only use certain brands of parts and never some others. He sponsors regular barbecues with all his clients mostly on some Sundays at his shop and his following is extensive. It is like a hot rod show with most of the cars there are show winning race cars. If you want to see an array of perfectly restored Daytonas, Superbirds, Road Runners, Chargers it is better than going to Spring Fling out here. Many of the are regularly run at drag strips too. He does other brands as well. He stands behind everything he does and will not skimp on anything. I have never heard of him having a problem engine and I have asked around extensively who is the best rebuilder in the area and every time it is him. He is rabid about not using any Chinese parts or any other non-well known company's products. He also seems to prefer AMSOIL lubricants. He will also never use lifters that he isn't sure will not cause problems and has a large stash of them.

He breaks in all his engines on a loaded engine dynamometer and doesn't treat them gently after putting on a good number of "miles" under varying loads all the way to full load at the end of the lengthy process. He actually won't do an engine rebuild unless he also does the break in on a dynamometer under his conditions - he doesn't want customers possibly not driving their vehicles improperly during a break in period just to be sure his engines will go the distance. It costs an extra $600 for that to be done, but he insists on it. Overall though, his prices are reasonable and he is very down to earth and very friendly/likeable as well. He even has his whole family get to know his customers at his regular barbecues.

He actually owns a modern Hellcat Challenger and he raves about the extensive quality of the parts Chrysler uses in those engines as he has torn one of them down and says he was surprised that Chrysler actually uses the best available parts in those engines. He mentioned the quality of the rods and rod bolts and so many other parts that he says are the best you can get.

I had another rebuilder before him that was pretty good but in going through the shop and looking at his workers and their attitudes, I really didn't like what I saw. Once I got back an engine that didn't have proper oil pressure and I never went back. That rebuilder also used Comp Cams and at least in that respect I have not had a problem yet with them and I do follow all the break-in procedures and each rebuilder seems to prefer other lifters other than Comp Cams offers.

One of the constraints I had in having the current guy do my engines is that I do not want a race engine, just the quality of one. One reason he decided on the Comp Cam was the specs since I told him I wanted stock performance with smooth idle and good low end torque and few cam builders offer such a cam except Comp. He does prefer other cams but at least most of my cars have that cam but not necessarily their lifters and so I have yet to have any issues with any of them except that one mentioned above from what was a a couple of bearing clearance issues.

 

[darth_linux]

Sounds like your rebuilder is Mopar Nick.

 

[saforwardlook]

Sounds like your rebuilder is Mopar Nick.

No since Nick is in New York and I am on the opposite side of the country in the Southern California area midway between Los Angeles and the desert. My rebuilder is just as likeable though but more middle aged. I am closer to Nick's age though and like him, still kicking.

 

[MEV]

As a follow-up note, my experience is with the johnson roller lifters. I am not sure it they make flat tappet lifters.

 

[fury fan]

There is a whole plethora of opinion and debate on the wiping of lobes on flat-tappet cams in classic car engines.
I recently read a lot of lifter-wiping and oil/zinc stuff.
An interesting comment I read on the Comp Cams issues - 'Comp sells more cams than anybody so they are bound to have more failures, too.' Take that at face value.

While I'm not intending to be an expert giving a ruling, here are some takeaways I remember: (your builder surely knows this).

Make sure the lifter will rotate in the bore (on its own) when the cam is turning. If a lifter doesn't rotate, it will wipe the lobe.
It's a good idea to break the cam in with 'weak' springs, then swap to the ones the cam requires.
The gray/moly break-in lube is mandatory on the lobes.
Lower-lift cams with milder spring pressures are less likely to wipe.

Engine oils have ever-reducing levels of zinc, making the oils less suitable for classic engines and/or high-lift flat-tappet cams.
Per some seemingly-knowledgable folks on BobIsTheOilGuy.com, using a zinc/ZDDP additive may not help, as the molecules in the additive may not play well with the oil. The car owner will not know this is happening. Using a zinc-rich oil is a better approach.
Finding an oil with a zinc # of 1200 is a safe bet. Other folks said 800 would be fine for older non-performance engines.

I have been using Shell Rotella for many years. I have some jugs of older formulation I haven't used up (CJ-4?) and the latest version is CK-4 (?), which still has 1200.
There are some oils that are now meeting both car (SM?) and truck (CK-4?) specs, and to do that they must have the reduced zinc levels that hte car spec requires. So avoid them.

If one is so inclined, 1-2 hours of reading (on BITOG, anyway) will yield a lot of useful info. As with all conjecture and opinions on the internet, separating wheat from chaff is the key.

 

[330dTA]

Just curious: why are you not using the OEM part, Mopar Performance #P4452783? This one:
Mopar Performance Purple Camshaft - P4452783AE

 

[saforwardlook]

Just curious: why are you not using the OEM part, Mopar Performance #P4452783? This one:
Mopar Performance Purple Camshaft - P4452783AE

I made that mistake once a long time ago now. It has lousy idle quality and didn't even perform all that well in terms of low end torque - it is nothing like what a 440 HP engine is like. It is a Mopar Performance midrange racing cam more than anything else. None of my cars will ever have one.

 

[330dTA]

Thank you. I would have never guessed. - My NYer has the Edelbrock Performer Plus #2192, which is supposed to be a silky smooth running cam. It is not. To change it is on my to-do list.

 

[saforwardlook]

Thank you. I would have never guessed. - My NYer has the Edelbrock Performer Plus #2192, which is supposed to be a silky smooth running cam. It is not. To change it is on my to-do list.

The Edelbrock AVS2 carbs are pretty good on our cars but as for their cams I am not familiar with them. About the only Mopar Performance part I will buy is their steel head gaskets to maintain good compression ratios when doing an engine rebuild or just a rebuild of the heads.

I am also fed up with the ethanol fuel we are forced to use in California - if causes sticking carburetor needles and seats if the car sits for a few months and also causes accelerator pump modern cups to come off their plungers in some of my carburetors because it manages to even swell those.

Instead, I am now signed up with a local small private airport about 20 minutes from my residence and can get all the high 100 octane low lead aviation fuel I want and it is only $5.50 per gallon and NO ethanol!. I just told the airport manager that I wanted to use it in all my older collector vehicles and he immediately understood and allowed me to sign up and get their access codes to use their pumps. If I take longer trips and have to use the crap ethanol fuel I just run it out or drain it when I know the vehicle will not be driven much in the next few months and put in the LL100 aviation fuel and run the engine for a short while on the good fuel before shutting it down.

One big headache taken care of for me.

 

[330dTA]

I'm glad to hear you have the fuel problem solved. Pretty neat. I only have some 300 miles on my engine since rebuild, so I cannot comment. (My carb is a Holley Avenger 670 cfm. I get 16.8 at steady 65 mph on highway. 2.76 rear.)

 

[detmatt]

The Edelbrock AVS2 carbs are pretty good on our cars but as for their cams I am not familiar with them. About the only Mopar Performance part I will buy is their steel head gaskets to maintain good compression ratios when doing an engine rebuild or just a rebuild of the heads.

I am also fed up with the ethanol fuel we are forced to use in California - if causes sticking carburetor needles and seats if the car sits for a few months and also causes accelerator pump modern cups to come off their plungers in some of my carburetors because it manages to even swell those.

Instead, I am now signed up with a local small private airport about 20 minutes from my residence and can get all the high 100 octane low lead aviation fuel I want and it is only $5.50 per gallon and NO ethanol!. I just told the airport manager that I wanted to use it in all my older collector vehicles and he immediately understood and allowed me to sign up and get their access codes to use their pumps. If I take longer trips and have to use the crap ethanol fuel I just run it out or drain it when I know the vehicle will not be driven much in the next few months and put in the LL100 aviation fuel and run the engine for a short while on the good fuel before shutting it down.

One big headache taken care of for me.

I just use marine 2 cycle along with the 10% ethanol pump gas and NEVER have any issues Even after a long winter’s storage. The classics fire right up in the spring with no other storage additives.

 

[saforwardlook]

I just use marine 2 cycle along with the 10% ethanol pump gas and NEVER have any issues Even after a long winter’s storage. The classics fire right up in the spring with no other storage additives.

Yes, the Chrysler 300 Club Int'l Inc also recommend the use of 2 stroke oil but I also like the high octane of the aviation fuel and not having to bother with the 2 cycle oil. In our hot climate it also makes a difference in those conditions when pinging/knocking are more likely. The low lead content also aids valve seat wear. There are good reasons why especially the small planes that use that airport use the 100LL fuel.

 

[saforwardlook]

I'm glad to hear you have the fuel problem solved. Pretty neat. I only have some 300 miles on my engine since rebuild, so I cannot comment. (My carb is a Holley Avenger 670 cfm. I get 16.8 at steady 65 mph on highway. 2.76 rear.)

You made a good choice in the CFM of the carburetor you use - too many folks think in terms of carburetors, bigger is better - it is not. That is one reason your mileage is good too.

 

[fury fan]

I absolutely love that you are burning 100LL in teh face of all the over-the-top CA environmental-salvation rules.
I love it that you are not allowing them to dictate your pursuit of happiness.

 

[Ripinator]

You made a good choice in the CFM of the carburetor you use - too many folks think in terms of carburetors, bigger is better - it is not. That is one reason your mileage is good too.

Steve: You should still use marine two-cycle oil - even in your 100LL gas. There are many benefits - regardless of the octane level of the gas in your tank.