Strange valve train issue suddenly

[tbm3fan]

Ok, this is not exactly Mopar related yet has people stumped. Last year I took Dart heads off my 302 because in the end I wasn't happy with them. So I got my original 302 heads rebuilt and a very nice job it was. Took the other heads off, installed these, changed out the cam for another, slipped in 16 NOS Ford lifters and ran the engine. All went fine. Afterwards took off the valve covers to fine tune the valve adjustment. Stopped there and did electrical updates through the year.

Last week I ran the engine to do a final check on timing, carb adjustments and idling speeds. However, in 20 minutes of running I hear a metallic tick which seems to come from wherever your ear is. So I shut down the engine and let it cool off. A week later, yesterday, I took the valve covers off and the tops of both heads and the rockers are dry as a bone. No oil anywhere. I spun up the oil pump with my drill and still no oil after a few minutes of that???

So I pull the intake today and guess what? The valley clearly has had oil running over it. All lifters are normal. In fact no damage to the roller rockers or the valve stems. Now I spin up the oil pump and I flood the valley with oil out of the lifters. Put #1 rocker assembly back on but can't get any up up to the rocker through the clear pushrod. Now I am really stumped!

 

[mr. fix it]

What about the rocker arms? are there holes to allow oil through? I'm going on memory here but there should be allowance so the oil can come up the rods. It may be capping the tubes off and not allowing oil to come up the rods.

 

[traintech55]

The fact that this problem started with all the engine work is a good sign. To me it sounds like the new lifters DO NOT have the hole in them to allow the oil to flow through the pushrods to the rocker arms, or somehow all 16 of them are clogged. the fact you have oil coming out from around the body of the lifters is a good sign. I would pull the lifters and inspect them real good.

 

[stubs300]

Are you talkin about a Ford or Mopar, I'm confused? Your title or topic make no sense as you make no mention of it. Do Mr. fixit and traintech even know what marque you're talkin about?? Good Luck though!

 

[LocuMob]

Are you talkin about a Ford or Mopar, I'm confused? Your title or topic make no sense as you make no mention of it. Do Mr. fixit and traintech even know what marque you're talkin about?? Good Luck though!

302 heads, Ford. C'mon Stubbs, he told us what engine! Need to polish up on your reading comprehension.

 

[MarPar]

Ok, this is not exactly Mopar related yet has people stumped. Last year I took Dart heads off my 302 because in the end I wasn't happy with them. So I got my original 302 heads rebuilt and a very nice job it was. Took the other heads off, installed these, changed out the cam for another, slipped in 16 NOS Ford lifters and ran the engine. All went fine. Afterwards took off the valve covers to fine tune the valve adjustment. Stopped there and did electrical updates through the year.

Last week I ran the engine to do a final check on timing, carb adjustments and idling speeds. However, in 20 minutes of running I hear a metallic tick which seems to come from wherever your ear is. So I shut down the engine and let it cool off. A week later, yesterday, I took the valve covers off and the tops of both heads and the rockers are dry as a bone. No oil anywhere. I spun up the oil pump with my drill and still no oil after a few minutes of that???

So I pull the intake today and guess what? The valley clearly has had oil running over it. All lifters are normal. In fact no damage to the roller rockers or the valve stems. Now I spin up the oil pump and I flood the valley with oil out of the lifters. Put #1 rocker assembly back on but can't get any up up to the rocker through the clear pushrod. Now I am really stumped!

Are you talkin about a Ford or Mopar, I'm confused? Your title or topic make no sense as you make no mention of it. Do Mr. fixit and traintech even know what marque you're talkin about?? Good Luck though!

 

[stubs300]

Ok, this is not exactly Mopar related yet has people stumped. Last year I took Dart heads off my 302 because in the end I wasn't happy with them. So I got my original 302 heads rebuilt and a very nice job it was. Took the other heads off, installed these, changed out the cam for another, slipped in 16 NOS Ford lifters and ran the engine. All went fine. Afterwards took off the valve covers to fine tune the valve adjustment. Stopped there and did electrical updates through the year.

Last week I ran the engine to do a final check on timing, carb adjustments and idling speeds. However, in 20 minutes of running I hear a metallic tick which seems to come from wherever your ear is. So I shut down the engine and let it cool off. A week later, yesterday, I took the valve covers off and the tops of both heads and the rockers are dry as a bone. No oil anywhere. I spun up the oil pump with my drill and still no oil after a few minutes of that???

So I pull the intake today and guess what? The valley clearly has had oil running over it. All lifters are normal. In fact no damage to the roller rockers or the valve stems. Now I spin up the oil pump and I flood the valley with oil out of the lifters. Put #1 rocker assembly back on but can't get any up up to the rocker through the clear pushrod. Now I am really stumped!

302 heads, Ford. C'mon Stubbs, he told us what engine! Need to polish up on your reading comprehension.

This is a Mopar board, How the **** should I know it's a Ford, He can't even put it in the title for Christ sakes! The first I saw of Ford was half way through his post. Eat me A-hole!

 

[MarPar]

This is a Mopar board, How the **** should I know it's a Ford, He can't even put it in the title for Christ sakes! The first I saw of Ford was half way through his post. Eat me A-hole!

Cmon Jon, Scott's just bustin yer balls.
And ya, we are a Mopar board, but it is a general question engine that could happen to Mopar. Just sayin...

 

[stubs300]

Cmon Jon, Scott's just bustin yer balls.
And ya, we are a Mopar board, but it is a general question engine that could happen to Mopar. Just sayin...

Yeah, I know there people out there stupid enough to do stupid crap like putting wrong parts in a motor. For all I know he could have the IQ of Will Stockdale! Wouldn't that be something?

 

[LocuMob]

Yeah, I know there people out there stupid enough to do stupid crap like putting wrong parts in a motor. For all I know he could have the IQ of Will Stockdale! Wouldn't that be something?

You crack me up!

Better tell Pontiac Jim it's a Mopar board!

 

[Fury440]

If I remember correctly the rocker assemblies are right and left side in order to line up the oil feeds from the head. At least that's the way they are on a 440 - guess how I discovered this!

 

[Wildaugust]

I'm wondering about the NOS lifters maybe not having oil holes too. I think the lifters for an FE block are the same diameter as the lifters for a Windsor block, but I could be grasping at straws. So, maybe they are for an FE? Did you say the oil was coming out of the lifters themselves, in which case they have oil holes, or is the oil only coming out from around the lifters, the bores?

When you first ran the engine how long did you run it? You didn't hear ticking until the second time you ran it?

 

[Fury440]

I'm wondering about the NOS lifters maybe not having oil holes too. I think the lifters for an FE block are the same diameter as the lifters for a Windsor block, but I could be grasping at straws. So, maybe they are for an FE? Did you say the oil was coming out of the lifters themselves, in which case they have oil holes, or is the oil only coming out from around the lifters, the bores?

When you first ran the engine how long did you run it? You didn't hear ticking until the second time you ran it?

We noticed when we ran the pump with an electric drill, had good oil pressure but the rockers were dry. Pulled a rocker assembly and looked at the oil feed. It didn't line up so pulled the other rocker and discovered the same problem. However if we put the right rocker on the left and the left on the right, the holes lined up. Ran the drill primer again and now got lots of oil from both rockers.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

Chrysler's don't oil through the pushrods. Only thing that controls oil to the rockers is position of the cam.

 

[Fury440]

What I was trying to say is best shown in this diagram. The oil passes thru a hole at each end of the cam and goes up to the rocker shaft. Note the location of the oil hole in the rocker shaft and what would happen if the rocker shaft assemblies were accidently reversed.

 

[Rusty Muffler]

Yeah, I know there people out there stupid enough to do stupid crap like putting wrong parts in a motor. For all I know he could have the IQ of Will Stockdale! Wouldn't that be something?

His opening statement said " Last year I took Dart heads off my 302 because in the end I wasn't happy with them." 302 Dart?

 

[Polara_500]

His opening statement said " Last year I took Dart heads off my 302 because in the end I wasn't happy with them." 302 Dart?

Dart makes performance heads.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

What I was trying to say is best shown in this diagram. The oil passes thru a hole at each end of the cam and goes up to the rocker shaft. Note the location of the oil hole in the rocker shaft and what would happen if the rocker shaft assemblies were accidently reversed.
View attachment 314868

That diagram is wrong or the poly engines are different( I'm not 100% on them). The LA and BB feed both sides off the passage from number 4 cam bearing. The heads and the rocker shafts are universal with the passage in 2 places in each head and at the same bolt holes which are enlarged to allow oil to pass by the bolt and into the shaft.

 

[stubs300]

Dart makes performance heads.

And Thank You! I didn't know that then, that's what threw me for the loop. I had this, What'd this guy do moment? Stuff a Ford in a Dart? Vague descriptions and failure to draw the big picture will do that ****! But what do I know?

 

[Fury440]

That diagram is wrong or the poly engines are different( I'm not 100% on them). The LA and BB feed both sides off the passage from number 4 cam bearing. The heads and the rocker shafts are universal with the passage in 2 places in each head and at the same bolt holes which are enlarged to allow oil to pass by the bolt and into the shaft.

Very probably there are lots of different designs. I ran into this probledm and I am just suggesting he needs to check it out if the rockers are running dry.