turning torion bars down?

[70bigblockdodge]

My comprehension then. I thought you were agreeing with Stan here.

Truck drivers can't agree on the color of the line in the center of the road.

 

[detmatt]

Lol!

 

[commando1]

Truck drivers can't agree on the color of the line in the center of the road.

I agree.

 

[saylor]

Sir! i cannot find any definitive print , so far, that says "yes" or "no" do this or do not do this - so i'm just gonna say the following:

I do not see how the OEM front shocks can suspend the front end alone, by themselves.

The front end suspension spring MUST come from the torsion bars.

Therefore, if you relax the tension in the bar, there must be less springing force available, and will also take more torsion to get the original amount of springiness.

Therefore, you are slopping up the spring when loosening the adjusto.

I hold the mindset that the front shocks are there only for smoothing out/ preventing oscillations / to provide dampening and all the 'suspension' is via the torsion bar.

I could be totally wrong.



- saylor

 

[furyus 67]

Side note: every time I see one of you guys mention low rider I imagine this is what you mean:

In contrast every time I say " In the weeds "I'm referring to this:

Now I realize some may see no difference. There is a huge difference to those of us that like layin frame! So as said before...... In the weeds!

 

[67Monaco]

I'd do both.

 

[MrMoparCHP]

Sir! i cannot find any definitive print , so far, that says "yes" or "no" do this or do not do this - so i'm just gonna say the following:

I do not see how the OEM front shocks can suspend the front end alone, by themselves.

The front end suspension spring MUST come from the torsion bars.

Therefore, if you relax the tension in the bar, there must be less springing force available, and will also take more torsion to get the original amount of springiness.

Therefore, you are slopping up the spring when loosening the adjusto.

I hold the mindset that the front shocks are there only for smoothing out/ preventing oscillations / to provide dampening and all the 'suspension' is via the torsion bar.

I could be totally wrong.



- saylor

You are not relaxing the tension on the bar, you are only changing the relative position of the control arm to the bar.

No different than taking the steering wheel off the shaft any putting it on a few notches off, the center of the wheel is no longer the center of the steering travel.
Changing the adjuster is only moving the static position closer to the upper bump stop, now you have more lower travel and less upper. So it will take less effort to hit the bump stop only because you are closer to it. The torsion bar has not changed, if you were to put a mark on the top of the bar at the control arm before making the adjustment it will be in the same place after the adjustment.


Alan

 

[70bigblockdodge]

I agree.

Damn you, just for arguments sake.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

Sir! i cannot find any definitive print , so far, that says "yes" or "no" do this or do not do this - so i'm just gonna say the following:

I do not see how the OEM front shocks can suspend the front end alone, by themselves.

The front end suspension spring MUST come from the torsion bars.

Therefore, if you relax the tension in the bar, there must be less springing force available, and will also take more torsion to get the original amount of springiness.

Therefore, you are slopping up the spring when loosening the adjusto.

I hold the mindset that the front shocks are there only for smoothing out/ preventing oscillations / to provide dampening and all the 'suspension' is via the torsion bar.

I could be totally wrong.



- saylor

If you hold a picture up on the wall while you wife eyes it up it weighs X amount. She says down 3" it still weighs X amount, right 4" still weighs X amount. How much your arms are holding up does not change only position.
If that helps.

 

[300rag]

If you hold a picture up on the wall while you wife eyes it up it weighs X amount. She says down 3" it still weighs X amount, right 4" still weighs X amount. How much your arms are holding up does not change only position.
If that helps.

Speaking from experience???

 

[70bigblockdodge]

Speak from experience???

I was breaking it down to a level we can all relate to

Yes.

 

[commando1]

I'm still thinking this through.
Where's Rick Ehrenberg?

 

[polara71]

You are not relaxing the tension on the bar, you are only changing the relative position of the control arm to the bar.

No different than taking the steering wheel off the shaft any putting it on a few notches off, the center of the wheel is no longer the center of the steering travel.
Changing the adjuster is only moving the static position closer to the upper bump stop, now you have more lower travel and less upper. So it will take less effort to hit the bump stop only because you are closer to it. The torsion bar has not changed, if you were to put a mark on the top of the bar at the control arm before making the adjustment it will be in the same place after the adjustment.


Alan

Damn, common sense tells me different

 

[cantflip]

Let me try...

Once you wind the bar enough to support the weight of the vehicle, you are done changing load on the bar and are only changing ride height.

Which is pretty much what has been said here several other times.

If this helps, when you re-arch a leaf spring, you don't increase it's load carrying, just its position under the same load.

 

[78Brougham]

If I may chime in... when I got my 67 Imperial, the handling was terrible, all twitchy and nervous, very uncomfortable to drive at speed. Turns out the the ride height was way off and therefore all the other specs. Once the torsion bars were adjusted and caster/camber adjustments were made it was fine. My suspicion, along with my alignment guy's, is that someone never checked the ride height first, and then adjusted the caster and camber to spec, which made the squirrely. The FSM clearly states to check the ride height first before any other adjustments, but I'm sure the guy at the super walmart probably didn't know that.
I would suppose if you understand the relationship of all the geometry of these torsion cars, which I'm pretty sure you do, you should be able to lower it to any height, within reason (LCA travel) then make the proper caster/camber adjustments for a safe handling car.
Very nice Imp btw. Keep us posted on what you do. Lots of great input and thoughts

 

[70bigblockdodge]

but I'm sure the guy at the super walmart probably didn't know that

There you go "super Walmart tech" connot change torsion bar rate just it's position.

 

[Duncan]

All of this discussion goes to show the original engineers did a pretty good job designing the suspension and figuring out the best stance, height, handling, etc., for the car. Anything other than what was originally designed is just going to essentially circumvent that original engineering and, more times than not, probably for the worse. Why mess with a good thing, I always say.

 

[commando1]

Exhibit A

I rest my case.

 

[MrMoparCHP]

Exhibit A

I rest my case.

View attachment 128541

Interesting piece, until I see a difference in the twist when I adjust it I stand by my comments. The article is more a piece to describe the ride height aspects but fails in the engineering behind it. Just because it is on the internet it doesn't make it so.

Even with their example with the adjuster on the frame and not the control arm should have no impact on the twist.

The adjuster on a Mopar changes the relative position of the arm to the bar, on their example it changes the relative position of the bar to the frame (the arm will go with the frame. On both of these changing the ride height, in the end the TWIST remains on changed, the bar was twisted to start with and will remain with the same twist. This is a property of the weight, change the weight or the bar and you will see a difference in the twist but adjusting within a combination weight/ bar will not impact the twist.

I need to raise the front of my car so I will be sure to document this.


Alan

 

[commando1]

I need to raise the front of my car so I will be sure to document this.

That will be interesting.