Unions?

[Marian]

I'm confused. I've been reading about the VW plant in TN that has voted against being unionized. Why is that such a big issue? From what I see, we no longer have growth in Detroit. In respect to auto's. Detroit use to be the largest automaker city in the world. Now, the are known for the most foreclosure's in the US. Why? Unions? I don't know. The US has more million/billionaires in the world. Why don't they help build up our country? If it's tax incentives..then someone should look at lowering in country taxes. Who is going to stop the outsourcing? I'm not political...but I'm worried about us... America. If someone can explain why automotive unions have helped this country...I'd happy to learn.

 

[rush]

My Dad told me never to discuss religion or politics. All I can say from being a former teamster and union official that not everyone needs a union but some due. I just love how company policies change from day to day and my benefits just disappear at the whim because on paper it makes the CEO a boat load of cash.

 

[tbm3fan]

If someone can explain why automotive unions have helped this country...I'd happy to learn.

I will say just this. The auto unions made it possible for people to make a decent wage in the 40's after WWII and all throughout the 50's. Made it possible for many in the Midwest to move into the middle class and to own their own homes which was rare before WWII. Many baby boomers owe their good fortune to these unions that provided their fathers with those wages. Their dad was able to work and be able to buy a home, buy a car, take a family vacation and send those baby boomers to college. Now we have some of those boomers dissing unions and their kids even more so. They are taking much for granted. The auto union and subsequent industries that built up to supply the auto factories started many a grandfather down the road to help get us where we are.

Now look around and what do we see declining? The middle class. One shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth. This goes especially for all those who do now but benefited from the course set 70 years ago. I haven't and I won't. However, I do feel sorry for all those who are working 50+ hours a week, for salary, have no time and find it impossible to live like their father or grandfather. At work by 8 and home at 5 to a house that doesn't cost you an arm and a leg. I'll stop now before I get sentimental for those days of simplicity.

 

[Marian]

I will say just this. The auto unions made it possible for people to make a decent wage in the 40's after WWII and all throughout the 50's. Made it possible for many in the Midwest to move into the middle class and to own their own homes which was rare before WWII. Many baby boomers owe their good fortune to these unions that provided their fathers with those wages. Their dad was able to work and be able to buy a home, buy a car, take a family vacation and send those baby boomers to college. Now we have some of those boomers dissing unions and their kids even more so. They are taking much for granted. The auto union and subsequent industries that built up to supply the auto factories started many a grandfather down the road to help get us where we are.

Now look around and what do we see declining? The middle class. One shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth. This goes especially for all those who do now but benefited from the course set 70 years ago. I haven't and I won't. However, I do feel sorry for all those who are working 50+ hours a week, for salary, have no time and find it impossible to live like their father or grandfather. At work by 8 and home at 5 to a house that doesn't cost you an arm and a leg. I'll stop now before I get sentimental for those days of simplicity.

Sentimental is good. I know my father was not for unions. I don't know why since he died when I was 17. I just don't understand what happened with the automakers in this country. I guess if I don't know..then I wouldn't know how to fix it. Something our politicians should be researching as well. But this is for me...to learn...not them.

 

[jake]

When vw falls apart in America, politicians and ceo's will still blame the unions. Everybody blames the unions, unions are the reason for global warming, unions are the reason we have so much snow in Wisconsin, unions tear families apart, unions are the reason American people suffer. Oh, wait, unions are only 6-9% of the workforce out there, they sure are awfully busy people when not on break!

 

[jake]

1	JC Penney Co. Ronald Johnson* General Merchandise Stores	1,795	$53.3 M FY ended 2012	$29,688 2012
2	Abercrombie & Fitch Co. Michael Jeffries Clothing and Clothing Accessories Stores	1,640	$48.1 M FY ended 2012	$29,310 2012
3	Simon Property Group Inc. David Simon Funds, Trusts, and Other Financial Vehicles	1,594	$137.2 M FY ended 2011	$86,033 2011	Read company comment
4	Oracle Corp. Lawrence Ellison Publishing Industries, Except Internet	1,287	$96.2 M FY ended 2012	$74,693 2012
5	Starbucks Corp. Howard Schultz Food Services and Drinking Places	1,135	$28.9 M FY ended 2012	$25,463 2012	Read company comment
6	CBS Corp. Leslie Moonves Broadcasting, Except Internet	1,111	$69.9 M FY ended 2011	$62,930 2011
7	Ralph Lauren Corp. Ralph Lauren Apparel	1,083	$36.3 M FY ended 2012	$33,550 2012
8	NIKE Inc. Mark Parker Apparel	1,050	$35.2 M FY ended 2012	$33,550 2012	Read company comment
9	Discovery Communications Inc. David Zaslav Broadcasting, Except Internet	833	$52.4 M FY ended 2011	$62,930 2011
10	Yum! Brands Inc. David Novak Food Services and Drinking Places	819	$20.4 M FY ended 2011	$24,913 2011
11	Chipotle Mexican Grill Inc. Steve Ells Food Services and Drinking Places	778	$19.4 M FY ended 2011	$24,913 2011	Read company comment
12	McKesson Corp. John Hammergren Nondurable Goods	733	$39.7 M FY ended 2012	$54,162 2012
13	Target Corp. Gregg Steinhafel General Merchandise Stores	664	$19.7 M FY ended 2012	$29,688 2012	Read company comment
14	L Brands Inc. Leslie Wexner Clothing and Clothing Accessories Stores	656	$19.2 M FY ended 2012	$29,310 2012
15	eBay Inc. John Donahoe Nonstore Retailers	656	$29.7 M FY ended 2012	$45,304 2012
16	Honeywell International Inc. David Cote Machinery	633	$33.2 M FY ended 2012	$52,518 2012	Read company comment
17	Walt Disney Co. Robert Iger Broadcasting, Except Internet	613	$40.2 M FY ended 2012	$65,650 2012
18	Wal-Mart Stores Inc. Michael Duke General Merchandise Stores	611	$18.1 M FY ended 2012	$29,688 2012
19	3M Co. George Buckley* Plastics and Rubber Products	604	$25.4 M FY ended 2011	$42,017 2011
20	Macy's Inc. Terry Lundgren General Merchandise Stores	595	$17.7 M FY ended 2012	$29,688 2012
21	American Express Co. Kenneth Chenault Credit Intermediation and Related Activities	590	$28.5 M FY ended 2012	$48,317 2012
22	Coca-Cola Co. Muhtar Kent Beverages and Tobacco Products	580	$30.5 M FY ended 2012	$52,537 2012
23	Pall Corp. Lawrence Kingsley Computer and Electronic Products	578	$33.9 M FY ended 2012	$58,565 2012
24	Mondelez International Inc. Irene Rosenfeld Food Manufacturing	565	$21.9 M FY ended 2011	$38,810 2011	Read company comment
25	Exxon Mobil Corp. Rex Tillerson Oil and Gas Extraction	524	$34.9 M FY ended 2011	$66,605

 

[jake]

Tyco International Ltd. Edward Breen* Computer and Electronic Products	522	$30.6 M FY ended 2012	$58,565 2012
27	Viacom Inc. Philippe Dauman Broadcasting, Except Internet	510	$33.5 M FY ended 2012	$65,650 2012
28	Altera Corp. John Daane Computer and Electronic Products	506	$29.6 M FY ended 2011	$58,430 2011
29	Wynn Resorts Ltd. Stephen Wynn Amusements, Gambling, and Recreation	499	$16.5 M FY ended 2011	$33,006 2011	Read company comment
30	General Electric Co. Jeffrey Immelt Machinery	491	$25.8 M FY ended 2012	$52,518 2012
31	Medtronic Inc. Omar Ishrak Miscellaneous Manufacturing	485	$25.0 M FY ended 2012	$51,584 2012	Read company comment
32	Freeport-McMoRan Copper & Gold Inc. Richard Adkerson Mining, Except Oil and Gas	479	$30.6 M FY ended 2011	$63,890 2011
33	Wells Fargo & Co. John Stumpf Credit Intermediation and Related Activities	473	$22.9 M FY ended 2012	$48,317 2012	Read company comment
34	Capital One Financial Corp. Richard Fairbank Credit Intermediation and Related Activities	468	$22.6 M FY ended 2012	$48,317 2012	Read company comment
35	News Corp. Rupert Murdoch Broadcasting, Except Internet	457	$30.0 M FY ended 2012	$65,650 2012
36	Comcast Corp. Brian Roberts Broadcasting, Except Internet	428	$26.9 M FY ended 2011	$62,930 2011
37	Ross Stores Inc. Michael Balmuth Clothing and Clothing Accessories Stores	426	$12.5 M FY ended 2012	$29,310 2012
38	VF Corp. Eric Wiseman Apparel	423	$14.2 M FY ended 2012	$33,550 2012
39	Coach Inc. Lew Frankfort Clothing and Clothing Accessories Stores	419	$12.3 M FY ended 2012	$29,310 2012
40	ConocoPhillips James Mulva* Oil and Gas Extraction	416	$27.7 M FY ended 2011	$66,605 2011
41	Time Warner Inc. Jeffrey Bewkes Broadcasting, Except Internet	412	$25.9 M FY ended 2011	$62,930 2011
42	Johnson Controls Inc. Stephen Roell Motor Vehicle Parts	409	$21.4 M FY ended 2012	$52,319 2012
43	Philip Morris International Inc. Louis Camilleri Beverages and Tobacco Products	407	$21.6 M FY ended 2011	$53,108 2011	Read company comment
44	Goodyear Tire & Rubber Co. Richard Kramer Plastics and Rubber Products	407	$17.1 M FY ended 2012	$42,035 2012
45	Occidental Petroleum Corp. Stephen Chazen Oil and Gas Extraction	406	$28.5 M FY ended 2012	$70,194 2012
46	HJ Heinz Co. William Johnson Food Manufacturing	405	$16.2 M FY ended 2012	$39,934 2012
47	Pfizer Inc. Ian Read Pharmaceuticals and Medicines	394	$25.6 M FY ended 2012	$65,101 2012
48	Eaton Corp. PLC Alexander Cutler Electrical Equipment and Appliances	394	$20.4 M FY ended 2012	$51,835 2012	Read company comment
49	LyondellBasell Industries NV James Gallogly Chemicals	392	$23.5 M FY ended 2011	$59,913 2011	Read company comment
50	Ford Motor Co. Alan Mulally Motor Vehicles	390	$29.5 M FY ended 2011	$75,565

 

[jake]

3rd box from the left is ratio of pay from ceo to workers.

 

[jake]

I firmly believe in a free market, but not one that's this warped.

 

[70NPORT]

I read last year at one point GM was putting out more $$$ to pay for UAW union retiree health benefits than it was investing $$$ into automobile r&d, effectively making it a healthcare company. Imagine that.

 

[polara66hardtop]

I read where there was a near riot in Ohio a couple years ago because GM retirees were asked to contribute 50.00 a month to their monthly health premium. my wife pays 300.00 a month for the two of us , only that low because she works for a Private University. Now Obama gives Unions the exemptions, now that is what makes people angry.

 

[polara71]

There once was a time for Unions, that time has passed. Problem is Unions, like government are corrupt. In it for themselves and not the rank and file like they used to be. So few do things for the simple reason of "doing the right thing" and so many do things for "whats in it for me".

 

[70NPORT]

There once was a time for Unions, that time has passed. Problem is Unions, like government are corrupt. In it for themselves and not the rank and file like they used to be. So few do things for the simple reason of "doing the right thing" and so many do things for "whats in it for me".

That about sums it pretty well. Their time has long since passed.

 

[jake]

What exemptions, I pay over 9 dollars a hour for insurance with a 4000 dollar deductible. Any health bank funds will be tax at the end 0f 2015. Its the union health insurance companies screwing everyone. Johnson Wax has a plant in Racine and pay there workers well, but still have to hire outside union pipefitters because there in house workers are not qualified enough to work on there systems. Everytime we go in and do there job for them, they **** on the unions, and my reply to them is the same and always shuts them up. Would you like 300 ceritified welders, pipeliners ,and system specialists apply for your job? People say unions kill incentive of the working man, well I make way more then union scale because of my talent, no where does it say you cant work hard and make more, but you deserve to make etc.. if you do work. Like I always stated, if you go out and work everyday, you deserve compensation.

 

[jake]

You do not realize how much you would miss something until its gone.

That about sums it pretty well. Their time has long since passed.

 

[1978 NYB]

We went through a major, major downsize (Sequester). The guys that worked for me were union. The company changed the title of the job and changed the words of the job description around.........same job, same job description and made everybody submit a resume and reapply for their jobs. The company got rid of all the people they wanted to get rid and keep the *** kissing worthless slime balls that they wanted. Everyone that wasn't selected was laid off. What did the union do for these guys??? Not a ******* thing! It was like they were in on it and/or payed off.

 

[polara71]

Of course they were Bob, a few guys made out really REALLY well.

 

[67Monaco]

The union job my grandfather was killed on, 4 of my six uncles also held, aren't around to be grandfathered into anymore. The unions priced the steel companies out of business. My other two uncles have trouble keeping steady union trade work (electricians) since they've also been priced out of the market and spend the majority of the year on unemployment.

If they'd give up their dependency on the unions they'd probably find meaningful gainful employment. That's what the first four realized.

 

[jake]

Bob, I don't know what they did for you, but in construction, if you do not produce, no matter what kind of *** kissing you do, you get canned. In private construction unions, that is usually how it works, company gets job, union fills the positions, when job is over, members get laid off. Then you usually go and travel looking for work, throughout America from a union database. Men from my local follow pipelines and travel all over to different refineries across America. It works well for myself and my family, I am just trying to show people how certain unions work. I know how hard my crew and I work, and if someone thinks they are better and faster, they deserve the work.

 

[jake]

I have been busy for almost twenty years straight, did they constantly go back to there local training centers and try to educate themselves to make them more marketable. More certifications equals more job offers.

The union job my grandfather was killed on, 4 of my six uncles also held, aren't around to be grandfathered into anymore. The unions priced the steel companies out of business. My other two uncles have trouble keeping steady union trade work (electricians) since they've also been priced out of the market and spend the majority of the year on unemployment.

If they'd give up their dependency on the unions they'd probably find meaningful gainful employment. That's what the first four realized.