watching Pole Barn Garage 1974 Imperial not running in 40 years

[spstan]

1974 Imperial on Pole Barn garage. I watched the fellow get it running and driving it. 2 questions 1) he smelled the gas and says it was bad. What does bad gas smell like? 2) can you really use ATF in the power steering unit? I always used power steering fluid.

Nice looking car. He had it for sale for $2500. Don't know if he sold it. Paul

 

[polara71]

Trans fluid in the PS pump is almost an always.

 

[DCMC]

Bad gas smells like varnish, but I've drank worse and I still run.

 

[carguy300]

Bad gas smells like varnish, but I've drank worse and I still run.

Ever seen the movie, The Wraith?

 

[Justin Plant]

I love this channel. I really like the Father-Son builds.

 

[Big_John]

1974 Imperial on Pole Barn garage. I watched the fellow get it running and driving it. 2 questions 1) he smelled the gas and says it was bad. What does bad gas smell like? 2) can you really use ATF in the power steering unit? I always used power steering fluid.

Nice looking car. He had it for sale for $2500. Don't know if he sold it. Paul

Bad gas simply doesn't smell like gas. Varnish is a decent description.

Keep using the power steering fluid. Chrysler always spec'd power steering fluid. That's kind of basic reasoning.

It's been my experience that every leaking power steering pump or bad hose was leaking red ATF.

Some other cars do use it, but there's no advantage to it, and cost difference is minimal.

I won't argue with anyone over this. All I can say is I don't use ATF, and my stuff doesn't leak.

 

[CBODY67]

Back in the 'olden times', it was common for service station people to use atf to TOP-OFF a power steering reservoir, when they checked the motor oil during fueling time. Reasoning was that it was a similar viscosity of power steering fluid. In even earlier times, like pre-1961 or so, atf and psf were low-viscosity "hydraulic fluids", with additives added for their particular applications. Some of the earlier power steering reservoir caps had the "Type A" stampings on them, which was atf.

The Chrysler psf I bought in the 1970s was clear and a bit waxy looking, possibly a bit thicker than normal atf. It worked great. Never any leaks from hoses or fittings. Similar when the Mopar jobber I got it from closed, so I switched to the GM Psf, which looked similar.

When I bought my '67 Newport used, with about 86K miles on it, it had "red" psf in it. After a few weeks, I noticed dots of fluid on the outside of the pressure line. They were red. So I got enough of the red atf out of the reservoir, twice, replacing it with the GM psf. The "bleeds" stopped. SO, any psf MUST be compatible with the rubber in the system for best results. Hoses AND o-ring seals.

Ford's current Mercon V Dex/Merc atf is said to be compatible with THEIR power steering systems.

But, back when the cars were used cars, service station people would use red atf to top-off ps systems. If there was a leak/seep, soon you had a system with mostly atf in it. THEN the leaks got worse and repairs were needed. Might take a little bit more effort, but using PSF can be beneficial, in the long run. Or the old GM psf.

The bad thing is that current Valvoline Max-Life (red bottle) psf is red fluid. So all red might not be bad, but you can never take any chances, to me.

Y'all enjoy!
CBODY67

 

[Robert Saigh]

Can you get some pictures? 2 or 4 door? Color? Rust issues?

 

[Just Carbs]

From what I can gather with my many old Mopar cars, the power steering system should be flushed occasionally. I don't know how often.

Every pump that I have opened up to change the big leaking O-ring on the pump reservoir can that has run only p/s fluid has had heavy discolored fluid sludge syrup caked onto and settling inside of the reservoir can and pump. With light silt, but no grit. Parts cleaner was required to cut and clean the pump and reservoir.

I don't see this heavy build up in the trans pans that presumably run ATF fluid only. I see just the normal expected clutch wear in the pan. Not the syrup I see in the p/s pumps.

I do remember running ATF in the power steering back in the day. I don't remember any "performance" issues.
Return hose swelling was an occasional occurrence. Maybe that was caused by the use of heater hose instead of p/s return line hose.

The 60 years old factory return hose I encountered today was rock hard but not cracked. It could not have been removed from the pump without cutting it. That p/s system had only p/s fluid in it, and the heavy sludge.
I changed the big O-ring without removing the return hose from the pump or box and called it good, for now. And when refilled with p/s fluid.

I'm inclined to switch that car to ATF and a line filter and see what comes out of the system. Maybe it can be cleaned up. Hopefully it will dissolve the remaining old syrup fluid into the ATF and come out with a really good flushing with p/s fluid.

I don't mind if it starts to leak at the hoses and pump. If the box goes to leaking. That would be a pain in the tail.
I definitely don't like the heavy sludge p/s fluid buildup in the system.

 

[Big_John]

From what I can gather with my many old Mopar cars, the power steering system should be flushed occasionally. I don't know how often.

Every pump that I have opened up to change the big leaking O-ring on the pump reservoir can that has run only p/s fluid has had heavy discolored fluid sludge syrup caked onto and settling inside of the reservoir can and pump. With light silt, but no grit. Parts cleaner was required to cut and clean the pump and reservoir.

I don't see this heavy build up in the trans pans that presumably run ATF fluid only. I see just the normal expected clutch wear in the pan. Not the syrup I see in the p/s pumps.

I do remember running ATF in the power steering back in the day. I don't remember any "performance" issues.
Return hose swelling was an occasional occurrence. Maybe that was caused by the use of heater hose instead of p/s return line hose.

The 60 years old factory return hose I encountered today was rock hard but not cracked. It could not have been removed from the pump without cutting it. That p/s system had only p/s fluid in it, and the heavy sludge.
I changed the big O-ring without removing the return hose from the pump or box and called it good, for now. And when refilled with p/s fluid.

I'm inclined to switch that car to ATF and a line filter and see what comes out of the system. Maybe it can be cleaned up. Hopefully it will dissolve the remaining old syrup fluid into the ATF and come out with a really good flushing with p/s fluid.

I don't mind if it starts to leak at the hoses and pump. If the box goes to leaking. That would be a pain in the tail.
I definitely don't like the heavy sludge p/s fluid buildup in the system.

I think you need to take temperature in mind when comparing sludge buildup. IIRC, power steering pumps run hotter than the trans by ~15°.

FWIW, ATF breaks down at ~225° and PSF upper range of PSF is ~260°. That can lower as the fluid ages and will really start to drop after repeated over-heating.

I think you're right about possibly needing the occasional flushing. Mineral oil based hydraulic fluid, which is what we're talking about, does leave a sludge when it starts to break down from heat and/or age. One of the reasons for the reservoir is to let contaminants and sludge settle out of the fluid.

Wow, I just went back to my night school hydraulics class from 50 years ago for some of that. LOL!

 

[Just Carbs]

I think you need to take temperature in mind when comparing sludge buildup. IIRC, power steering pumps run hotter than the trans by ~15°.

FWIW, ATF breaks down at ~225° and PSF upper range of PSF is ~260°. That can lower as the fluid ages and will really start to drop after repeated over-heating.

I think you're right about possibly needing the occasional flushing. Mineral oil based hydraulic fluid, which is what we're talking about, does leave a sludge when it starts to break down from heat and/or age. One of the reasons for the reservoir is to let contaminants and sludge settle out of the fluid.

Wow, I just went back to my night school hydraulics class from 50 years ago for some of that. LOL!

At that temp a synthetic fluid might be of benefit.

 

[Big_John]

At that temp a synthetic fluid might be of benefit.

Quite possibly. I never really looked into it very far as I have read not to mix the conventional fluid with the synthetic. If I was starting with new or rebuilt pump and box, I would consider it.

 

[Just Carbs]

Quite possibly. I never really looked into it very far as I have read not to mix the conventional fluid with the synthetic. If I was starting with new or rebuilt pump and box, I would consider it.

What I really want an aggressive flushing agent and a procedure for using it.
One that will bust up the syrup and get it out.

 

[carguy300]

I sent my powersteering pump out to be rebuilt my 68 300, they recomended synthetic for it. Its all good so far.

 

[michiganhotrod1]

Another reason for using Power Steering fluid is noise, it is formulated to reduce pump whine.
Mark