What is the order for reinstalling the engine?

[BIGBARNEYCARS]

Just curious. What year, what engine, and what trans? That trans looks "Odd Ball to me 'cept for the drum parking brake in the tail shaft. That makes it early '60 something with the set up for a trunion joint, Jer

 

[Fast Eddie B]

1960 fury. 318 poly with a cast iron 727. 100K miles. One owner. We are the first to pull out that motor

 

[Fast Eddie B]

I'm kinda shocked myself nobody has been able to help out on this.
Something else is going on, methinks.

Any chance of some sharp close ups?

With the bell housing removed, you can see where the bolt goes. When it is in all the way, it will be flush with the edge of the flange on the block. You can see there is no room to get a box end on it, or really an Allen key, to get it started. Can’t get your fingers in there when there is a bellhousing. They must have had one killer specialty tool to get that in there.

You can see the bolts on the crankshaft flange. No room to back that TC up, let along torque it later!

I’m betting a lot went back together without a bolt there!

 

[78Brougham]

Sorry to tell you this, but I think the TC is going to have to come off then put on after the bell housing is bolted in place. Now I remember fighting with this on a '60 Desoto we bought for parts years ago. You will need a Snapon extra long wrench to put the bolts back in the TC. Theirs are longer than anyone else's. Even their standard wrenches are longer than most everyone's regular ones. A zero degree offset boxend wrench might work....
At least you will have access to those harder to get ones that are being blocked by the TC.
Just my opinion, for what its worth.

 

[Big_John]

I'm thinking that a stud and nut might work out there.

An idea... Screw the bolt in from the other side rather than making a stud. Might be able to screw it in and catch the nut as it goes in. Screw it in as far as you can and then tighten the nut.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

Sorry to tell you this, but I think the TC is going to have to come off then put on after the bell housing is bolted in place. Now I remember fighting with this on a '60 Desoto we bought for parts years ago. You will need a Snapon extra long wrench to put the bolts back in the TC. Theirs are longer than anyone else's. Even their standard wrenches are longer than most everyone's regular ones. A zero degree offset boxend wrench might work....
At least you will have access to those harder to get ones that are being blocked by the TC.
Just my opinion, for what its worth.

You are on the right track. I did find a special tool listed in the shop manual c589 I think, and someone else somewhere else cross referenced that to a 10” snap on tool. But I thought they still put the TC on first and the tool worked for both. Someone else suggest a funky long nosed round head needle nose pliers. I have those and will go try first. Otherwise I found a number of items similar to snap on tool for getting up there.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

I'm thinking that a stud and nut might work out there.

An idea... Screw the bolt in from the other side rather than making a stud. Might be able to screw it in and catch the nut as it goes in. Screw it in as far as you can and then tighten the nut.

That might work too. I could tack a nut to the inside and bring in a bolt from the other side. I can finish the nut with a off set open end wrench

 

[commando1]

I once received in a hardware kit for my F150 Hitch Receiver. Was a bolt-on affair. On the nuts that required being inside the box channel frame, a length of rebar wire welded to the nut allowed you to install a blind nut amazingly easy.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

SUCCESS. Big_John had it. Tried a combo of 78Brougham and Commando1 first, but couldn’t get enough movement to get the bolt to bite from inside. Took off the oil filter, threaded a both through, then mated it to a Gorilla taped stud on the bellhousing. A long skinny HF Pittsburgh special 9/16 fit up in there and I was able to crank the bolt into the locking nut. Was important that I did not have to move the nut, just the bolt. Damn the threaded block flange, stripped that as collateral damage. Small sacrifice for a bolt that was an hour or two to remove and at least that long to replace. Repair **** included. You can see not much clearance. As a denouemment, the other side bolting from the block had a wierd irreplaceable course thread (like a 20) so I put a bolt in there too. Much easier because their was a hole for the starter.

SUCCESS. Big_John had it. Tried a combo of 78Brougham and Commando1 but couldn’t get enough movement to get the bolt to bite from inside. Took off the oil filter, threaded a both through, then mated it to a Gorilla taped stud on the bellhousing. A long skinny HF Pittsburgh special 9/16 fit up in there and I was able to crank the bolt into the locking nut. Damn the threaded block flange, stripped those. Small sacrifice for a bolt that was an hour or two to remove and at least that long to replace. Repair **** included.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

FAILURE. Tried to mate the 727 to the housing. 4 attempts, came up 3/8” shore every time. It is not the shaft. Measures fine. Not the keys, lots of room. Can’t figure out why it won’t slide right in. TC is the same, bellhousing same. Motor rebuilt but crankshaft flange feels exactly like it was based on clearances for install. Trans was rebuilt. It just isn’t clicking together like I expected it.

Would really appreciate any feedback if anyone has had to install one of these special late 50’s early 60’s combos where the TC bolts to the block not the trans....

 

[78Brougham]

Try putting it in gear like a manual... then turn the output shaft. Those trans have a front and rear pump. You can actually push start those cars, just like a standard. If you notice, three are two sets of splines on the input shaft. Perhaps one of them isn't lining up correctly.
Just a thought....

 

[78Brougham]

Just had another thought..... Try turning the crank, thereby turning the TC, so the dogs /slots in the TC mate with the dogs/slots on the front pump of the trans. Have a buddy gently push on the rear of the trans while doing it.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

We are turning the rear brake drum and turning the inner shaft, first thing my buddy did was turn it as you suggested like a manual. At first we didn’t notice the smaller front spline rotating. But we go that working. The outer shaft and keyed insert is not rotating. I’m guessing the motor turns those.

I’m sure they are matching because they are almost 2” each and we are within 3/8”. It almost has to be the seal and we are not pushing hard enough but neither of us have auto trans experience. Just clutches.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

Just had another thought..... Try turning the crank, thereby turning the TC, so the dogs /slots in the TC mate with the dogs/slots on the front pump of the trans. Have a buddy gently push on the rear of the trans while doing it.

Tried that. Lots of room in those slots. They are not tight. The play in them - a good 1/8 turn.

 

[rags]

agree with 78brougham above. never done this style unit, but on any modern transmission, the last thing to engage is the converter into the front pump. with 3/8s left, the splines should be in. not suggesting you do this but there's been times when i'll spin a converter and sock it with a with a rubber mallet...

 

[Fast Eddie B]

We can’t really spin the converter. Have to spin the crankshaft to do that. I wobbled the crankshaft around a little while my buddy wiggled the trans, but never got it past that last 3/8”.

Tapping with a mallet not likely practical. We are mating a 200 lbs cast iron 727 Torqueflite to a 650 lbs big block! A battle of heavy weights. It’s hard to hold the trans up and wiggle it while pushing it in.

But what I think you are saying about the front pump is that we have to get the outer seal on the trans/pump to mate with the male counterpart on the TC and that will take a bump to do. And I am guessing there are very tight tolerances and we will have to get the trans and engine aligned almost perfect.

Is that what you are thinking?

 

[rags]

Tapping with a mallet not likely practical.

definitely not. that's a last resort for a skilled hand. if possible, if not done already, do a trial fit of the converter to the transmission. put some white grease on the seal area of the converter. if the converter installs completely, the front seal will sweep it. put line up marks on the converter and trans. that'll give some idea where the pump to converter alignment area is.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

I think I figured it out. The pump shaft sleeve is not seated properly. It was, we pulled it out to lubricate the front seal and never got it back right. Now that I can’t get it back right, I’m going to take it by the shop that rebuilt it and get it fitted back in. Has to be simple, just requires a touch I don’t have.

 

[rags]

that would do it.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

I took it to the rebuild shop. He poked and prodded and tapped and looked puzzled. He measured the depth and found ‘this is not going in any farther.’ It was stopping 3/8” short.

He says hmmmm.... i’ll Bet the pump gear is in backwards. Chevy’s have <something technical> flange on the gear. If this does, that would do it.

Off comes the pump face, and sure enough the gear was in backward. Problem solved!

WRONG

RIGHT

DONE