What kind of paint?

[MoperDan]

The 69 Sport Fury Convertible should be out of sheet metal hell by the end of the month. I'm torn between single stage and base coat, clear coat. I'm thinking about urethane for ease of application and cost. But then I like BC/CC for the drop dead gorgeous finish. After the cut and buff nothing loos better. I'm going back with the original R6 Scorch Red. What is your opinion and why? Oh and I do all my own paint.
Dan

 

[300rag]

I'm sure our man @azblackhemi can help you out with this.

 

[CBODY67]

The OEM production paint at that time was acrylic enamel, now termed "single stage". With the addition of a "hardener" additive, it can look amazing with a "hard shine" better than OEM.

BC/CC takes less color coats, then using the top coats of CC to get the allegedly added UV protection and the slick shine they all seem to have. All with about the same total build thickness. What about matching by your paint supplier?

What paint style do you normally shoot? Cost differences? Whom are you choosing to please?

About that last question . . . at this time, so many people consider BC/CC to be "the standard" as to shine and such. To them, anything less, even if not OEM-production in orientation, is sub-standard. ALL for the same perceived price and efforts. "So why not go with the BC/CC?" to them.

I always appreciated when an owner takes efforts to be true to the model year with the paint they put on the car, as to type. I smile, especially if it is done well. That's just me, but your car is not my car.

Just some thoughts and observations,
CBODY67

 

[azblackhemi]

I'm sure our man @azblackhemi can help you out with this.

Well don't know if I can help but I can sure give you my opinion. On a solid color there's nothing wrong with using single stage. It may not quite have the depth of BC/CC but pretty close. If I'm spraying a metallic color I will only use BC/CC. I painted my 79 300 with a lower level single stage white acrylic urethane and most people are surprised when I tell them it's single stage.

 

[MoperDan]

Thanks for your opinions, It kinda seems like 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. I am leaning to single stage. I normally shoot BC/CC, it has been 20 years since I've shot single stage.

 

[Darby]

A long time ago I did a lot of single stage painting, with hardener of coarse. Then the base-coat paints came out. The biggest problem with single-stage is making a repair, trying to blend the paint, trying to melt the paint edge in to the old paint can make for a good repair at the time. The problem comes in as it ages, the blend will start to show and ultimately, you end up with a nasty paint edge walking back as the paint ages. If you just paint the entire panel, the likely-hood of the new paint matching the old paint probably isn't going to happen. I quit using single-stage a long time ago because it's so easy to make a repair (stone chips, dents, scratches, or even panel replacement - door, fender, hood..........) with a clear covering the new and old paint.
Lets say you fix a dent or a scratch; the primer will go out past the repair. Wet sand the entire panel or even the panel next to it. When the primer edge it gone (enough paint coverage), blend/fan the next coat of paint past the repair and clear the entire panel(s). You'll never have a paint edge walk back on you and, you can do this from one panel to the next. Example - It can make the new fender match the door because the last coat of paint on the fender will be blended back onto the door and all cleared together. Also, some of the clear-coats today will melt into the clear on the car and not walk back like blending single-stage. To make a future repair invisible, it's well worth the up-front cost of going with a base-coat paint.
This is just my opinion, but I've done this a long time and I know this works well.

 

[CBODY67]

What you describe as to repairs has been around long before you started to paint. Newer methods of blending have been devised. ANY paint is (as used to be on the DuPont factory pack pints) "photochemically reactive". Meaning that it will fade when exposed to UV light (fancy term for "daylight").

In about 1975, a friend had a red '74 Cougar his dad bought new for him to take to college. after a few years, it had "rash" on the side of it, so his dad paid for "spot repairs" to make it all look good again. Polished back out really nice, but by the 2nd year, the orig paint had continued to fade and the new paint had not got out of the orig color's range. SO, every spot repair was visible. No paint edges, just spots of newer paint. The car was red metallic, which adds another layer of expertise in getting the correct gun air pressure so the metallic lays out correctly.

I saw a PPG video on matching BC/CC paint, back then. Doing a panel repair. With a BC/CC repair, the "exact match" will not happen until the last coat of CC is applied. Kind of like the old Ford "special colors" where after the orig color is shot, each coat after that is diluted with clear until the final coat is mostly clear. Again, the "match" is not complete until that last coat of CC.

To me, the ONLY colors which can match well and hold their color matches is white and black, non-metallic paint. No matter how many stages it might have.

Enjoy!
CBODY67

 

[Darby]

You’re 100% correct, the auto body repair and painting has been around long before me. It has come a long way from lacquer - I’ve used a lot of that with and without clear and I liked it.
When a member has a question about what would be the best way to paint his car, I’m going to try and help him. I have no idea of his knowledge on this and I’ll try to give him something that can help him make a decision that’s best for him. I feel base-coat is the way to go and I can explain why.

BTW: I liked the factory-pack pints and we would use them on a difficult match, they could be great if you picked the correct alternnet. We normally mixed it ourselves.

 

[MoperDan]

The 1st car I painted in 1969 was lacquer. I was a lot of work sanding between each coat but when it was done and you walked up to it, it was so deep you took a step back because you were afraid you might fall into it.

 

[Darby]

I know what you mean, it can be a glass finish and it's great to do spot repairs on. It's just so hard that it chips easier than urethane, actually, back then it would have been acrylic enamel w/hardener or DuPont Imron; still available and I can only assume it's still a really good paint, but you know how they had to remove some of the "things" (that make some of the paints so good) for the environment.

 

[MoperDan]

I know what you mean, it can be a glass finish and it's great to do spot repairs on. It's just so hard that it chips easier than urethane, actually, back then it would have been acrylic enamel w/hardener or DuPont Imron; still available and I can only assume it's still a really good paint, but you know how they had to remove some of the "things" (that make some of the paints so good) for the environment.

I remember something about Imron and special respirators. I never did spray it.

 

[CBODY67]

^^^ Yes, Imron was the first paint where you needed to have a respirator (NOT just a filter) IF you wanted to live and do another paint job. It was neat paint, though. Ahead of its time, for sure. One of the demos for it was a piece of aluminum foil they had painted it with, then crinkle the foil and the paint stayed stuck in one piece. But then back then, many painters did not normally use a "filter mask" to keep the paint particles out of their noses and lungs. Think "technicolor sneeze".

In the larger metro areas, the "volume" body shops got spray booths so they could spray acrylic enamel as when it was shot "clean" and right, it took far less finish time after it was shot to produce a hard-shine finish. You could tell a shop that normally shot acrylic lacquer as they usually had a minimal spray booth as if any trash got into the lacquer, it could be sanded out, then buffed. One thing you could not do was to shoot lacquer "dry" and then sand and buff it to look like a non-grainy paint job, by observation.

Enjoy!
CBODY67

 

[Big_John]

I remember something about Imron and special respirators. I never did spray it.

Imron was the first paint where you needed to have a respirator (NOT just a filter) IF you wanted to live and do another paint job.

It came close to killing a friend of mine back in the 70's. He sprayed a t-bucket body in his shop and ended up in the hospital. IIRC, he had some sort of respirator, but not a good one. Of course, that gets absorbed by exposed skin too.

It poisoned his system to the point of where he became extremely sensitive to any paints and had to close his shop.

 

[azblackhemi]

It came close to killing a friend of mine back in the 70's. He sprayed a t-bucket body in his shop and ended up in the hospital. IIRC, he had some sort of respirator, but not a good one. Of course, that gets absorbed by exposed skin too.

It poisoned his system to the point of where he became extremely sensitive to any paints and had to close his shop.

Imron along with the newer urethane paints contain Isocyanates which are what can harm you. You can have a reaction the first time you spray it and become sensitized and not be able to use it again. Sounds like this is what happened to John's buddy. Supplied air respirators either weren't developed or at least not used back then. I've sprayed hundreds of gallons of Imron on transit buses but luckily using proper safety equipment.

 

[garyh]

Dupont Centari for the win ! LOL

 

[CBODY67]

I always liked the way Centauri looked and held up. Even better with the hardener in it.

I think it's now Axalta brand?

 

[Big_John]

Imron along with the newer urethane paints contain Isocyanates which are what can harm you. You can have a reaction the first time you spray it and become sensitized and not be able to use it again. Sounds like this is what happened to John's buddy. Supplied air respirators either weren't developed or at least not used back then. I've sprayed hundreds of gallons of Imron on transit buses but luckily using proper safety equipment.

I don't think supplied air respirators were even available at the time. From what I saw, the only thing a lot of shops used were paper masks if they used anything at all. A lot of those masks had a hole in them so you could smoke a cigarette too.

I remember back in the 80's, a local paint supplier went out to talk to local car clubs about the dangers of spraying paints with isocyanates, like the catalyzed enamels, at home and it got my attention.

 

[azblackhemi]

I don't think supplied air respirators were even available at the time. From what I saw, the only thing a lot of shops used were paper masks if they used anything at all. A lot of those masks had a hole in them so you could smoke a cigarette too.

I remember back in the 80's, a local paint supplier went out to talk to local car clubs about the dangers of spraying paints with isocyanates, like the catalyzed enamels, at home and it got my attention.

Another thing I remember about body shops in the 70's is there was a respirator hanging outside the spray booth for everyone to use! Most of us chose not to wear that nasty thing.

 

[Darby]

I was at a training a long time ago, I'm guessing it was in the early '80s. I didn't get much from the spraying techniques, but I still remember the safety items I didn't know about, even after going to school for collision repair, they didn't go into depth as much as this training. For this conversation I want to add that when we get thinner on our hands (which happens daily), traces can be found in our bloodstream within 12 seconds. Another thing that surprised me is that isocyanates are absorbed through the eyes even easier than the skin. As we all know, that once a person is sensitive to it, it will never go away and put them in the hospital if they get exposed to it.
I still do body and paint work (and anything else mechanical outside the school) mostly during the summers. I teach auto mechanics to highschool Juniors and also have certifications to teach collision repair in Pennsylvania. I tell my students that I don't know everything, I make mistakes everyday, and I'm not perfect just like them, but I know enough to help them. There's something to learn every day!

 

[garyh]

Centari was discontinued. Nason became Axalita. Also I hate Clear coat on a Classic car.

I always liked the way Centauri looked and held up. Even better with the hardener in it.

I think it's now Axalta brand?