Mark Pifer
Member
Thank you too.
Wyatt is selling out
- Thread starter hergfest
- Start date
Fratzog
Old Man with a Hat
Pulling the plug like that on a bunch of cars that you have so much time, money and effort invested into must be hard. They seemed to be priced fairly so hopefully they will find good homes and won't end up in the hands of flippers.
barnfind
Old Man with a Hat
Gotta keep focus on your goals. First one I've seen worthy of letting go of a very cool collection for.
2022 Dodge Challenger SRT Jailbreak
2022 Dodge Challenger SRT Jailbreak
A wise sage on this site whom I know pretty well advised me in the past: "do not sink large amounts of cash into depreciating assets" - so that is the big question here, are these vehicles going to become the future Dodge Daytonas or Plymouth Superbirds? With the EV wave coming on us strong, and given that they are probably going to be faster than these plus the use of petroleum products dwindling and the availability of techs who know how to work on these beasts declining probably big time, are these vehicles even going to be valuable in another 10 years?
But if you have the resources, then live for today is also an option..............................as this particular "Jail Break" is really nice! There is clearly some very capable folks at Stellantis these days - that is a work of art and engineering plus imagination!
LocuMob
Fluid Technician with a hat
You have how many old cars in need of attention in your fleet?
EVs aren't going to phase out ICE cars in the near future, and probably not even in the distant future. It will progress, but not near the speed they keep hyping. The demand isn't there, no matter what they claim. GM just announced a new line of gasoline engines for their trucks, so much for all electric, you don't invest that kind of money for a fifteen year run.
Gas isn't going anywhere in the next fifty years. Hydrogen isn't practical for any long distance travel.
Will these last generation of Chargers and Challengers be collectible? All I know is used examples with 20-30k miles are going for about what they sold for new, people know they aren't making them more, and demand is still high.
I got mine because I knew the door was closing, and for the next few years prices will remain high. Got a good deal for a car I wanted, and will keep forever. Got lucky it was local as well.
But yes, living for today is what it's all about. Money isn't real, so why not go have some fun with an exciting car. It's changed the way I look at my fleet, and what my goals are.
I understand Scott where you are coming from but I also wonder just how many vendors will be out there with replacement parts for these specialty cars in terms of future parts needed since investment costs will be high and the return on the investments made in those parts may not be easy to recover. All I know for sure is that Chrysler isn't much interested in supplying repair parts for their cars after about 10 years if not earlier these days.
Yes, I have plenty of vehicles that need maintenance or repairs but I have what I need to repair them either in stock or readily available because there are so many model years and vehicles produced that enables a reasonable business case for vendors to produce them. I also know how to do pretty much everything myself on these cars but on these specialty cars at hand in this discussion, I am not so sure how many regular guys will be able to repair this computer aided stuff when sensors etc go bad - thankfully OBD II will help.
My only point was that the future is just a lot more dicey with the changes going on in the world today and the strong emphasis on Climate Change. Certainly gasoline will get much more expensive. I am also up there in age and if I have the surplus cash, then such expenditures could be justified in my mind if that is where my emphasis lies. As I get older and sell off all my stuff, getting a Hellcat etc. would be fine for my remaining days.
Thus, your current age also factors in.
If you buy a home these days, that is for sure a good investment unless it is located on an oceanfront in Florida or the like. Investing in these vehicles, however, is just more uncertain is all.
If one was looking to buy a house and get married, as another example, I would focus on getting the house first rather than getting a Hellcat, etc.
It just depends on age and circumstances...................................
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LocuMob
Fluid Technician with a hat
The lack of long term parts availability is always a concern, good time to stock up on the wearables I suppose. Currently the aftermarket is going full force, mostly speed parts and aero/looks.
I don't plan on messing with my car, which should keep it working fine for years. Messing with the ECU and tuning is where I see people having issues. The car is plenty capable for now, so I don't see a need to mess with it. Maybe I'll follow in Bob's (RIP) footsteps, and get a Hellcat in a year or so. That'd be sweet.
It's great that the factory makes cars so capable and dependable, I think it's a shame they aren't keeping the V8 engine. I don't see the same wave you see for EVs, just a push by those who will never use them, that we all need them, and have to have them. The free market should decide, but no matter, it will work itself out. If companies can't make money selling battery powered cars, they will change course accordingly.
Gasoline will only get more expensive as it gets taxed for whatever various reasons, along with terrible policy from a certain east coast District. But I'll keep pumping it into my tanks, my house is paid for, so I got that going for me.
I don't plan on messing with my car, which should keep it working fine for years. Messing with the ECU and tuning is where I see people having issues. The car is plenty capable for now, so I don't see a need to mess with it. Maybe I'll follow in Bob's (RIP) footsteps, and get a Hellcat in a year or so. That'd be sweet.
It's great that the factory makes cars so capable and dependable, I think it's a shame they aren't keeping the V8 engine. I don't see the same wave you see for EVs, just a push by those who will never use them, that we all need them, and have to have them. The free market should decide, but no matter, it will work itself out. If companies can't make money selling battery powered cars, they will change course accordingly.
Gasoline will only get more expensive as it gets taxed for whatever various reasons, along with terrible policy from a certain east coast District. But I'll keep pumping it into my tanks, my house is paid for, so I got that going for me.
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sixpkrt
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I am in more agreeance with what @LocuMob is saying about the future of ICE cars than what we are being brainwashed to believe about EV's.
Are EV's cleaner? Yes. Are they quicker? Yes. Will they become more mainstream? Yes. But unless the EV manufacturers reevaluate the price point to income levels of the average citizen, I don't see any clear path for the affordability compared to ICE vehicles. (Even though ICE vehicle pricing is becoming just as bad)
Sure, there are less expensive EV cars, but who wants to be driving around in an ugly, jellybean looking car or socker mom SUV? Not me. Any of the EV's that have nice styling are either at, or over the $100K price tag range.
Stellantis is investing millions into the V6 Hurricane, so they either must know the ICE will be around for many years to come or are recognizing some of the shortfalls in profitability over the EV's.
Going back to whether or not the ICE cars will hold their value, I believe they will. Even more so for the performance models over the V6 low end rides. However, I didn't buy the Scat Pack as an investment, but because of excitement it creates when you're behind the wheel, not to mention it's such a well-built, great looking car to have with a plenty of power right under your foot.
As far as the fading number of people who will be around to work on an ICE vehicle is just another fallacy, at least for now and the foreseeable future. Over on Challenger Talk, they've got almost 90,000 members. I'm sure the Charger forums have just as many, if not more. So, there's overwhelming interest in these cars for sure.
Besides, take a look at this forum's membership as a barometer. We're all working on 50-year-old cars, and there is still has plenty of interest and know-how.
I missed the height of the 60's/70's muscle car era by about 6 or 7 years. Luckily, all of us are living in a true muscle car era right now. Unfortunately, this last hurrah is coming to an end too as it did 50 years ago.
I know I won't be around in another 50 years from now, but you only live once. May as well enjoy the time we are here.
Are EV's cleaner? Yes. Are they quicker? Yes. Will they become more mainstream? Yes. But unless the EV manufacturers reevaluate the price point to income levels of the average citizen, I don't see any clear path for the affordability compared to ICE vehicles. (Even though ICE vehicle pricing is becoming just as bad)
Sure, there are less expensive EV cars, but who wants to be driving around in an ugly, jellybean looking car or socker mom SUV? Not me. Any of the EV's that have nice styling are either at, or over the $100K price tag range.
Stellantis is investing millions into the V6 Hurricane, so they either must know the ICE will be around for many years to come or are recognizing some of the shortfalls in profitability over the EV's.
Going back to whether or not the ICE cars will hold their value, I believe they will. Even more so for the performance models over the V6 low end rides. However, I didn't buy the Scat Pack as an investment, but because of excitement it creates when you're behind the wheel, not to mention it's such a well-built, great looking car to have with a plenty of power right under your foot.
As far as the fading number of people who will be around to work on an ICE vehicle is just another fallacy, at least for now and the foreseeable future. Over on Challenger Talk, they've got almost 90,000 members. I'm sure the Charger forums have just as many, if not more. So, there's overwhelming interest in these cars for sure.
Besides, take a look at this forum's membership as a barometer. We're all working on 50-year-old cars, and there is still has plenty of interest and know-how.
I missed the height of the 60's/70's muscle car era by about 6 or 7 years. Luckily, all of us are living in a true muscle car era right now. Unfortunately, this last hurrah is coming to an end too as it did 50 years ago.
I know I won't be around in another 50 years from now, but you only live once. May as well enjoy the time we are here.
fury fan
Senior Member
Solar, wind, and hydroelectric energy generation only makes electricity. It can run the manufacturing machines. And the coal-fired plants will run on cloudy and windless days.
But until the masterminds figure out how to make plastics, rubber, chemicals, etc, out of electrons I think we'll be using oil.
And until they can make a minehaul truck that doesn't give up half its payload to the battery, because mining activity will go thru the roof for all the battery ores we'll need.
But until the masterminds figure out how to make plastics, rubber, chemicals, etc, out of electrons I think we'll be using oil.
And until they can make a minehaul truck that doesn't give up half its payload to the battery, because mining activity will go thru the roof for all the battery ores we'll need.
rags
Senior Member
you'd never think that 100 years later there'd still be parts or interest in these.
in the time that i have left, it's one of the cars that i would still like to have. wish Wyatt the best. he deserves it for all the help he's given.
When new technologies are introduced that is when prices are the highest but as a little time and competition take place, prices come down dramatically and with EVs, it is already starting. The prices of EVs will also come down because new technologies have the most room for considerable improvement in a short period of time.
I believe you guys that think EVs are going to be high priced in the not too very distant future are out of touch with what is going on in the industry currently. The future of batteries is not todays technology, rather it is solid state technology and it will likely be here before 2030. Todays EVs are high priced because they are new and the well-heeled can afford to buy the first ones out, but the profit margins on these cars are currently through the roof. I would strongly suggest you look at this video to see what the reality today really is and just how much money Tesla, for one, is making off of their EVs. It is eye-popping.
One thing you also overlook is how much less maintenance is required over the life time of the power trains/mechanical systems on these cars. If you really think about it, there is very little to go wrong on EVs in terms of their power trains or maintenance required either.
Also, almost every major automaker has stated they will be completely phased out of gasoline vehicles by 2030 to 2035.
LocuMob
Fluid Technician with a hat
Not yet, here's your chance.
LocuMob
Fluid Technician with a hat
Search Servprolara and you'll see the '69 wagon. I'll have to look for the '70 pictures.
Not the best, but a little something for you.
sixpkrt
Senior Member
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What's going on in the industry right now related to the EV evolution is that too many people are looking at these alternative forms of transportation through their rose-colored glasses.
The additional costs both individually and environmentally of transitioning to a nationwide transformation to EV's are far more significant than continued usage of fossil fuels.
Nobody is talking about the natural resources it takes to create a single EV, or the hazardous disposal that we will face in the future. Where are all those people? Only talking point most see is "it will save on fuel costs" or "its clean energy".
America has one the cleanest air quality numbers in the industrialized the world, and we're constantly told by our leaders that we must eliminate fossil fuels, while all the political hacks who keep lining their pockets know very well that China is the biggest polluter of all.
Operating an EV is becoming more costly than an ICE vehicle, and the further we lean towards the dependency of electricity, the suppliers of electricity will gain further control of their monopolies and squeeze even more of the hard-earned dollars out of our pockets. Sure, oil companies can do the same and charge more, but fuel, for the most part by the average consumer, is used to move our vehicles from point A to point B.
On the other hand, the use of electricity encompasses far more resources we use on a daily basis. With the added dependency on EV's, we can only expect it will force everyone to change their daily routines, that will only further reduce our freedoms.
As many are aware, just recently in the green capital of the United States, the governor of California asked its residents to refrain from charging their electric vehicles because of deficiencies in the power grid, and probably some other political factors as well.
When I look at the big picture, all I see with everyone running out to get on the EV bandwagon with some getting rid their ICE vehicle to go with an EV, and not even taking into consideration the weak infrastructure of our grid, I wonder if they ever heard of the old adage of putting the cart before the horse.
Governor Gavin Newsom urges Californians to "do their part" and limit energy use -
I think it's great Elon is making a ton of money selling the Tesla model. Capitalism at its best. His increase in Telsa's profits probably saw an additional bump when he moved from CA to TX.
Anybody can believe what they want, but there's always two sides to every story.
I for the most part agree w/ Tim's assessment of the current projections on EV car costs. Here is a perspective not as well addressed. The most common failure item is the battery itself. Even if the cost were to come down from the average of 7000.00 to 9000.00 for battery replacement, how many EV owners could absorb such maintenance costs. I have seen the results of the service life of Toyota Priuses render them to throw away cars. A EV car that is disposable after 5 years is simply no bargain for the average American who are used to automobiles the have a lifespan of 10 to15 years on the average. Middle American households would not be able to buy operate and replace or repair there EV under those conditions. Add to that electric resources used by EV cars are controlled by in large city or county municipalities. As mentioned in other posts is the US electrical grid is already in large municipalities overloaded. California is a good example of what we can look forward to. The current US infrastructure is simply inadequate to support an EV mode of transportation. My own personal favorite is EV cars at rush hour w/ dying batteries in gridlock.
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If naysayers of EVs really think multi billion $$ Corporations just pull their decisions out of the air or wherever without an intense evaluation of all the issues by scores of specialists who have looked comprehensibly in matters deciding their futures, you are very naive. Cherry picking issues by arm chair experts doesn't really gain much insight to the big picture. But I do also realize if two arm chair experts agree, then the matter is settled.
Just one question for example, the major materials in today's EV batteries are lithium, manganese, cobalt, graphite, steel, and nickel. Which ones do you consider hazardous since they already exist widely in the earth? Given the cost of mining for these materials, recycling efforts are well underway to recover these elements from current spent batteries to save expense.
Just one question for example, the major materials in today's EV batteries are lithium, manganese, cobalt, graphite, steel, and nickel. Which ones do you consider hazardous since they already exist widely in the earth? Given the cost of mining for these materials, recycling efforts are well underway to recover these elements from current spent batteries to save expense.
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LocuMob
Fluid Technician with a hat
WTF does this have to do with Wyatt's fleet of cars? I'm mad at myself for participating. If you want to talk EVs, go to the two or three threads already running about them. Let's get back to Wyatt's wagons.
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