Yet another "erratic at cruise"
- Thread starter patinated_imperial
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patinated_imperial
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patinated_imperial
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@CBODY67 and @Knebel : Yours and my last posts was lost, but I had read them just before. So I will reply from memory, but I am not sure who suggested what.
In any case thank you for your thoughts!
I agree the round-about incident was leading your thoughts to fuel or float issue. Unfortunately no other evidence towards this. I have an electric fuel pump and a return style regulator and have verified it flows plenty even at low fuel levels in the tank.
The ignition coil was changed to a blue streak brand, as it was the original one from 1966 in the car.
Also the carb has been opened many times and I have adjusted float level with no real change in this surging. This also means, there is no debris in the float bowls.
About the timing chain; I know it is not a potential immediate failure, but I might do it just to get peace of mind. I have ordered the summit brand double roller, which has good reviews on this forum.
I managed to buy a Holley 4160 for the equivalent of $40. It does not seem very used. If I want to try it, I have to make an adapter, since my manifold has the original narrow AFB bolt pattern (shared with the spread bore carbs) and the 4160 has the square bore pattern.
So at the moment I am wondering, if I should change the carburetor first, or the timing chain....
In any case thank you for your thoughts!
I agree the round-about incident was leading your thoughts to fuel or float issue. Unfortunately no other evidence towards this. I have an electric fuel pump and a return style regulator and have verified it flows plenty even at low fuel levels in the tank.
The ignition coil was changed to a blue streak brand, as it was the original one from 1966 in the car.
Also the carb has been opened many times and I have adjusted float level with no real change in this surging. This also means, there is no debris in the float bowls.
About the timing chain; I know it is not a potential immediate failure, but I might do it just to get peace of mind. I have ordered the summit brand double roller, which has good reviews on this forum.
I managed to buy a Holley 4160 for the equivalent of $40. It does not seem very used. If I want to try it, I have to make an adapter, since my manifold has the original narrow AFB bolt pattern (shared with the spread bore carbs) and the 4160 has the square bore pattern.
So at the moment I am wondering, if I should change the carburetor first, or the timing chain....
Knebel
Senior Member
How about a fuel regulator and pressure gauge? The carter does not like much pressure and should be at like 4.5psi. I'm just throwing ideas out that helped me!
Timing chain first. Get it out of the way and be done with it. If you use the Holley, also be advised that you'll need an air cleaner base with the larger "Holley-size" hole in it. Just the base as the top part works with them all.
The '67 NY 440 had a Holley 4160 on it OEM. Might look up the jetting specs in the '67 FSM and match them to the carb you got as you get it rebuilt. The "bolt pattern" might look like a spreadbore, but the spreadbore is longer than it is wide, for the extra space the secondary throttle bores take up.
Enjoy!
CBODY67
The '67 NY 440 had a Holley 4160 on it OEM. Might look up the jetting specs in the '67 FSM and match them to the carb you got as you get it rebuilt. The "bolt pattern" might look like a spreadbore, but the spreadbore is longer than it is wide, for the extra space the secondary throttle bores take up.
Enjoy!
CBODY67
patinated_imperial
Member
And please keeping doing that! One of the first things I did was add a holley 12-887 return style regulator and gauge, when I changed the electric fuel pump. Even checked it with a separate gauge. Every time something I have already visited is suggested, I am pleased to be assured others would have taken the same route!
Thanks for the help making the decision and the air cleaner tip!
The original manifold pattern is 4 1/4" x 5 5/8", which fits the old AFB. The 4160 seems to be 5 1/8" x 5 5/8".
patinated_imperial
Member
Almost there! Waiting for a puller for the balancer.
I might take the opportunity to change the seals in the power steering pump, while it is out. I think most of the oil/gunk on the engine comes from there. The battery tray is always full of oil, which I think is thrown from the PS pump
I might take the opportunity to change the seals in the power steering pump, while it is out. I think most of the oil/gunk on the engine comes from there. The battery tray is always full of oil, which I think is thrown from the PS pump
thethee
Senior Member
Could be valve covers, valley pan, or distributor seal also. Oil is pretty high up on the engine for power steering pump?
Should be "a trail" from the source if it's not getting deposited due to it getting slung up there. If it's getting slung up there, it should be other places in direct line with where it's getting slung from, too. Like the inner fender, hood insulator, front sway bar, etc.
Just some thoughts,
CBODY67
Just some thoughts,
CBODY67
patinated_imperial
Member
Pointers are a pattern on the battery in line with the inside of the power steering pump pulley and the fact that the car almost uses as much PS fluid as engine oil .
However it is tricky as the PS oil is thin and thrown off the pulley.
If anyone knows the correct seal kit for a TRW 1.2 pump (aka. "large TRW" 5 1/8" housing), I would be happy to know about it? Cross checking with the 1966 parts book and gates' and sunsong's web catalogues has not helped me.
I find it odd if the saginaw and TRW pumps would have the same seals.
The axle seal I took out is 13/16" ID and 1 1/4" OD.
1966 CHRYSLER IMPERIAL 7.2L 440cid V8 Power Steering Pump Seal Kit | RockAuto
Interesting that everything in the referenced RockAuto listing looks to be the same stuff from different sources. Some have the extra bearing and others don't.
In general, the sealing o-rings are more concerned with size than application, as are some of the smaller seals and such. Same for the shaft seal.
Perhaps others might have some more info?
Enjoy!
CBODY67
In general, the sealing o-rings are more concerned with size than application, as are some of the smaller seals and such. Same for the shaft seal.
Perhaps others might have some more info?
Enjoy!
CBODY67
patinated_imperial
Member
Yes, even some of the pictures are the same. They did not even bother to re-arrange the parts and take a different picture. But then again; the pictures could be generic ones for a "seal kit".
I have tried ordering the Sunsong 8401027 kit - as this was the only one referencing the pump with a hex in the axle end (which is what the Large TRW has)
patinated_imperial
Member
Reached the chain this evening. There is some slack in it, but the nylon tooths are all intact.
I am suprised how dry the lower gear was.
Have the new chain soaking in engine oil now.
I am suprised how dry the lower gear was.
Have the new chain soaking in engine oil now.
patinated_imperial
Member
The Sunsong 8401027 was correct. I might make a separate thread for the PS pump, when I find out if the new seals leak or not.
In the mean time, I thought I would post some pics from the process. They are probably self explanatory for the most part.
In the mean time, I thought I would post some pics from the process. They are probably self explanatory for the most part.
patinated_imperial
Member
(please excuse the metric ruler ;-))
patinated_imperial
Member
I made a version of the tool to hold the crank while tightening the balancer bolt after I saw a link to the correct tool on one of the forXbodies.com forums. It worked well enough to post a picture. (It took the 135 Ft lb).
Knebel
Senior Member
Wow you are getting a lot done! I was never really happy with the carter and the only thing that made the car run good was a holley with annular boosters and I tuned it with a wideband.
patinated_imperial
Member
Thanks, I think it is going a little too slow
. Only 1 month till my "vintage car insurance" does not cover and they start salting the roads.What kind of Holley did you end up with? Was the annular boosters original to the carburetor?
I saw the summit branded carburetor has annular boosters, but which else?
Many of the Summit-branded carbs are actually 1950-70s Ford 4bbls, not Holleys. Ford started doing the annular discharge venturis back THEN. Until recently, the only Holley-brand 4bbl with annular discharge venturis was on a drag race carb, just ONE carb. When that carb was changed-over to the annular discharge venturis, seems like people raved about it making another 20-30 horsepower on a drag race motor?
There's an Uncle Tony's Garage video where they do some back-to-back accel tests on the side of a major highway. Distance and speed. On a '72 (or there abouts) Charger 440. One of the carbs used was a Summit carb, which ran better than the others did. Which got me to wondering "Why?". Which is when I discovered the annular discharge venturis and that it was an old Ford 4100 4bbl from the 1960s or so design.
At one point in time, about the middle 1980s, Holley came out with a re-do of that old Ford design 4bbl carb. As everybody was seemingly fixated on the Holley 4160 0-1850 which most speed shops sold "cheap", that's what people bought. After a few years, the Ford/Holley 4100 was discontinued by Holley. Don't recall anything about the annular discharge venturis on them, though.
FWIW,
CBODY67
There's an Uncle Tony's Garage video where they do some back-to-back accel tests on the side of a major highway. Distance and speed. On a '72 (or there abouts) Charger 440. One of the carbs used was a Summit carb, which ran better than the others did. Which got me to wondering "Why?". Which is when I discovered the annular discharge venturis and that it was an old Ford 4100 4bbl from the 1960s or so design.
At one point in time, about the middle 1980s, Holley came out with a re-do of that old Ford design 4bbl carb. As everybody was seemingly fixated on the Holley 4160 0-1850 which most speed shops sold "cheap", that's what people bought. After a few years, the Ford/Holley 4100 was discontinued by Holley. Don't recall anything about the annular discharge venturis on them, though.
FWIW,
CBODY67
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