The weaponization of the DMV

[Justin Plant]

I'll bet if you fuel inject it, FI tech, Holley, whatever, it would burn way cleaner than it did stock. Of coarse you still need to title it....

 

[Big_John]

I'm just gonna toss this out there. Not recommending etc.

 

[73Coupe]

First, with that 900 rpm hot base idle speed spec, that leads me to believe that that particular label is for a 440 3x2bbl motor rather than a normal 440 or 440HP 4bbl motor.

CA has always been a bit stricter on "imported" cars, as to emissions regulations, whether from non-CA states, Canada, or otherwise. Even requiring such cars to have retrofit kits to make them more compliant to CA regulations. Including late-model vehicles! Nothing new about that!

In one respect, it kind of sounds like somebody in the state was having a flaky day at work, hence the rejection situation. Or they mis-read the applicable regulations! Especially for a vehicle older than 25 years old (or possibly 35 model years old).

That request to have Chrysler send a letter stating the vehicle was built to comply with emissions standards for its model year is definitely out of whack. Chrysler has no way of knowing if the vehicle still has its original parts on it or if there is something else in their place.

Rather than taking her word for it, do your OWN research of the vehicle registration regulations yourself. Usually available online from the state DMV. Then present YOUR findings to the local office and ask for a second opinion. Much better to know the game rules lest some "umpire" do something not totally correct!!

All of these things were in place wwaaayyyy before the more recent electrification orientations. So no "weaponization" involved.

In TX, over the years, we have observed that most local DMV office people do not fully know or understand many of the intricacies of registering an old car in TX. Different answers from different offices, by observation, so finding a DMV operative who knew what was going on was great to find.

Respectfully,
CBODY67

I did the research and there was a lot to do, first with getting into the USA and then CA.

Going through US Customs one of the forms required is the EPA declaration, with appropriate box checked:

The gal I dealt with (same gal as the first time) at my DMV was very knowledgeable and helpful, and she said that everything was done per requirements with the first submittal. She even broke out the DMV guidebooks they have for staff. Thus the admittedly clickbait "weaponization" in the thread title. However the missing emissions sticker apparently triggered the people up in Sacramento.
For example, Sacramento claimed that we submitted the incorrect US CBP form. She looked it up to double check, and it said "Form 7501 Entry Summary" is required. That's what was submitted.

I believe the California emissions
Code is N95 on fender tag.

N95 just like the popular face mask....(lots of mask wearing still gong out out here in metro areas). <Null> for that option on this car. Maybe an N95 mask over the tail pipe?

 

[saforwardlook]

One of the problems with the internet is that few folks really grasp the big picture in many issues but each person has a voice and they express it freely even when they really can't grasp the fullness of the problem. All if it just adds confusion and difficulty in getting anything done.

California has led the nation in reducing smog and improving fuel consumption of newer vehicles (of which the latter is the key to reducing the effects of climate change). All the technologies present on the latest Hellcat Chargers, Challengers etc were initially proposed by California and they worked with the same consultants in pushing this technology in conjunction with the vehicle manufacturers and the vehicle manufacturers worked collaboratively with the Air Resource Board and some key EPA staff in moving forward. There were some very capable EPA staff that had worked in the automobile industry before going to EPA and these folks were also present in the discussions with the vehicle manufacturers in setting the standards in California and the EPA usually followed California's regulations about 4 years later after the work was done together. That the process was very collaborative, the vehicle manufacturers have said so themselves.

Todays latest gasoline technology yield Flawless driveability with excellent performance and surprisingly good fuel economy for what they are capable of. Also OBD came out of the California Air Resources Board alone - to this day the EPA has almost no staff that knows anything about it. Try to fix today's complex vehicles without it or ask good technicians today what they think of it.

In today's world, nothing is simple anymore but when all are working together for the common good, then needed goals are achieved. That is what good government is all about and little of it is done anymore in so much of the country or the world. The love of money and power have corrupted it all and he internet full of garbage just makes it all more difficult.

I personally believe California is generally well run given all the problems present with so many people. Since this state is the 4th or 5th largest economy in the world, they must be doing some things right. I live here and can speak from experience while others really know little about the State from what I am reading but they know it all anyway.

 

[saforwardlook]

I did the research and there was a lot to do, first with getting into the USA and then CA.

Going through US Customs one of the forms required is the EPA declaration, with appropriate box checked:

View attachment 576256

The gal I dealt with (same gal as the first time) at my DMV was very knowledgeable and helpful, and she said that everything was done per requirements with the first submittal. She even broke out the DMV guidebooks they have for staff. Thus the admittedly clickbait "weaponization" in the thread title. However the missing emissions sticker apparently triggered the people up in Sacramento.
For example, Sacramento claimed that we submitted the incorrect US CBP form. She looked it up to double check, and it said "Form 7501 Entry Summary" is required. That's what was submitted.


N95 just like the popular face mask....(lots of mask wearing still gong out out here in metro areas). <Null> for that option on this car. Maybe an N95 mask over the tail pipe?

View attachment 576254

The N95 emission code signifies the California Emission package for later vehicles than the relatively early Chrysler vehicles built to meet CA emissions rules such as the 71s. You will not find that code on any 1971 Chrysler vehicle data plate. Inspectors only follow directions blindly and it is wise to know what they are ahead of time before even taking an out of state/country vehicle to them for inspection. They either see what they want to see or you don't make it through the first time. In addition to the emission decal present somewhere under the hood there must be a driver door sticker on the inside edge of the door present with VIN and build date must also be there and still readable or the vehicle is referred to the California Highway Patrol to be inspected and there they will look for the vehicle number that is hidden usually in 2 places on the vehicle body, and it would be wise to know where they are on your car to make this a quick process before you go there.

 

[saforwardlook]

The car has already been inspected, adding a sticker will not change things. The only thing that will help is additional documentation, ie the letter. Now if there is a code on the data tag that will help then a picture of the tag and a reference to the code might.


Alan

I have seen some of these vehicle inspectors unable to find the labels and I had to show them where it was. If they can't find it doesn't mean it wasn't there and they know they aren't perfect. So I believe it is worth a try to go through the DMV vehicle verification process and explain that you found what they couldn't. The inspectors are the first to acknowledge that they might have missed it. They are just average people from other realms trying to do their job and very few have much experience in what they are doing. They usually value your help when needed.

I have had scores of old cars over time and have been through the DMV process many times now.

 

[saforwardlook]

I know you could not get a tipped exhaust on later California cars. Like the 71 Challenger R/T could not be had in Ca with tips it had to have turned down exhaust. Also, prior to when it showed up in 1972 in almost all US cars the vapor canister or some sort of not vented to the atmosphere was present on Ca emissions cars (my 70 Challenger has a tube in the trunk). My point being if you can find some documentation as to why it was different, maybe that would help.

Those exhaust tip requirements back in that timeframe were there for noise reasons, not emissions. They of course were not useful so that requirement was soon thereafter dropped.

 

[73Coupe]

John, I would do what @Big_John is recommending. I would put on the inner fender a federal emission label that would be green and white because Canadian cars back in 1971 were built to federal specs (not California that would be a blue and white emission label like the one you are showing - also the one you are showing is for a CA 440HP engine and if yours is the standard 440 the part number of the blue and white decal would end in 74, not 76 like you are showing - reproductions of those are not available anywhere that I have found at least). Yours would need to be green and white.

I would put a green and white federal label on the inner fender maybe in a spot where it would be hard to see and grease it up a bit with fine dirt sprinkled in a bit too. Then take it back to the VIN verifier at the DMV office and just say that the first inspector missed it and when you looked closer, you found it (maybe place the federal label behind the battery area or fairly low down on the inner fender below the hood hinge area perhaps - you get the idea).

The car probably would sail through then.

I do not believe a car initially built for Canada though would even require an emission label but if it did, it should be the federal green and white one.

Also, I know a lady at an independent private company that knows how to get this car through the CA DMV process and I can contact her if you would like as well. It would cost maybe $50 to $100 to get her to do the job but might be worth it in your case. She knows all the ropes better than most any DMV clerk and what she would recommend would be legal. That is why I use her in many instances.

For all the others who claim they know what California will in time do with old cars, I can only state that SEMA has considerable clout with the California legislature and they contribute a great deal to legislators' campaigns and I can be pretty certain old vehicles will never be forced off the road in this state since there are many collector vehicles and SEMA makes very good money off of them. SEMA was also an ally in keeping vehicles built before 1977 out of the California smog check program. I seriously doubt CA will ever force old non-commercial vehicles off the road and in the case of semi trucks built before 2010, if the owner of such a vehicle was to install an aftermarket particulate filter on the truck, they would still be able to operate one of their trucks in CA. if the retrofit installation is approved by the Air Resources Board for that use.

And the ban on vehicles that is mentioned above starting in 2035 pertains only to new vehicles being sold in the state.

Lots of folks "know" all about the California program, just ask them but few ever get it right.

If you end up needing to contact the certification group back in Auburn Hills, MI I can also get you the right number to call or where to address a letter to them. I had to work with them in my last job.

Call me if you want to discuss the options in more detail.

Thanks Steve, yes I checked the remnants of the sticker on the inner fender and it is indeed green (see below). So none of these available that you know of? I might call Perf. Graphics and double check, I got stickers from them for the 73 NY and the dude I dealt with several years ago was helpful, he seemed to know all the correct part numbers for each engine by memory.

Since the vehicle has already been inspected, and if no new correct sticker available, it seems like the path to take is an attempt at getting some documentation from Auburn Hills. I appreciate the recommendations and "insider" information from your vast experience on this subject.

 

[saforwardlook]

Thanks Steve, yes I checked the remnants of the sticker on the inner fender and it is indeed green (see below). So none of these available that you know of? I might call Perf. Graphics and double check, I got stickers from them for the 73 NY and the dude I dealt with several years ago was helpful, he seemed to know all the correct part numbers for each engine by memory.

Since the vehicle has already been inspected, and if no new correct sticker available, it seems like the path to take is an attempt at getting some documentation from Auburn Hills. I appreciate the recommendations and "insider" information from your vast experience on this subject.

View attachment 576262

John, I would just show the inspector the sticker as it is and then show them a reproduction of your sticker that I believe might well be available given the much higher volume of federal vehicles out there. You might well be able to just wipe off the grunge covering it up to show them it meets federal emission requirements, which is all they need to pass it through (it is a plastic sticker and the numbers will not easily wipe off so trying to clean a portion of it would be the best solution. So maybe experiment with cleaning just a portion of it off and you could wipe the remaining junk off in from of them when you get the technique down pat. If you need the Chrysler part number for that sticker, I can get it for you. No inspector at DMV that I have ever had to deal with would not accept that sticker as what they needed but couldn't find for obvious reasons.

I can get you a contact number at Chrysler but I would bet it won't be easy for them to know how to deal with a car that old. This is all not very well thought out on the part of DMV since cars built before 1977 are exempt from smog check and therefore anyone owning these cars can put anything they want on them and no one will ever know. But that is one of the pitfalls of trying to make one inspection process work for such a breadth of cars models and years in the system.

Also, I could take a photo of one of my federal 71 Chryslers on the outside showing it is the same as yours and the same label on it fully revealed as well so they would know it is original. You have the right attitudes and come across well to people in my opinion and you can make it work one way or the other.

Finding that original sticker yourself is a gold mine in this situation - good work!

 

[MrMoparCHP]

... This is all not very well thought out on the part of DMV since cars built before 1977 are exempt from smog check and therefore anyone owning these cars can put anything they want on them and no one will ever know...

The older cars are not exempt from the smog requirements and must have all emission equipment intact and functioning.
They are exempt from the biennial inspections, which allows you to "get away with it".


Alan

 

[saforwardlook]

The older cars are not exempt from the smog requirements and must have all emission equipment intact and functioning.
They are exempt from the biennial inspections, which allows you to "get away with it".


Alan

I just wonder about the wisdom of implementing a regulation that can't be enforced. Is it really worth it anymore......................................?

 

[Davea Lux]

It's a side effect of never having to face real problems for several generations. The next generation probably won't have the leisure time to be so petty.

As a result of an ever increasing lack of common sense, the next generation may well have to learn to eat bugs cooked with a magnifying glass if the green wacko's have their way. There is a movement ramping up now to ban gas stoves, dryers, water heaters and heating systems because natural gas produces nitrogen oxides, carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide when burned. NY is already banning such appliances in new construction starting in 2030. CA is estimated to lose about 85,000 trucks that can no longer be used because of the new regulations. At about a 250K replacement cost, that is a pretty large hunk of change that someone will need to come up with to replace all those trucks. Many of these trucks are "beaters" that are used to move containers for short distances from the ports and freight yards. I guessing that there will probably be a significant increase increase in freight rates and/or even more congestion at critical shipping/receiving points. I am still waiting for someone from CA or NY to start taxing methane emissions from farts. Then again, if current population loss trends continue, CA and NY might well be depopulated in the future.

Dave

 

[CBODY67]

At one point in time, there were thoughts of limiting cattle herd sizes due to methane emissions. That didn't get far due to possible food supply issues.

 

[3175375]

One of the problems with the internet is that few folks really grasp the big picture in many issues but each person has a voice and they express it freely even when they really can't grasp the fullness of the problem. All if it just adds confusion and difficulty in getting anything done.

California has led the nation in reducing smog and improving fuel consumption of newer vehicles (of which the latter is the key to reducing the effects of climate change). All the technologies present on the latest Hellcat Chargers, Challengers etc were initially proposed by California and they worked with the same consultants in pushing this technology in conjunction with the vehicle manufacturers and the vehicle manufacturers worked collaboratively with the Air Resource Board and some key EPA staff in moving forward. There were some very capable EPA staff that had worked in the automobile industry before going to EPA and these folks were also present in the discussions with the vehicle manufacturers in setting the standards in California and the EPA usually followed California's regulations about 4 years later after the work was done together. That the process was very collaborative, the vehicle manufacturers have said so themselves.

Todays latest gasoline technology yield Flawless driveability with excellent performance and surprisingly good fuel economy for what they are capable of. Also OBD came out of the California Air Resources Board alone - to this day the EPA has almost no staff that knows anything about it. Try to fix today's complex vehicles without it or ask good technicians today what they think of it.

In today's world, nothing is simple anymore but when all are working together for the common good, then needed goals are achieved. That is what good government is all about and little of it is done anymore in so much of the country or the world. The love of money and power have corrupted it all and he internet full of garbage just makes it all more difficult.

I personally believe California is generally a well run given all the problems present with so many people. Since this state is the 4th or 5th largest economy in the world, they must be doing some things right. I live here and can speak from experience while others really know little about the State from what I am reading but they know it all anyway.

California is a disaster. They don’t even have the capability to issue a driver’s license at the DMV there (they mail it a couple of weeks later). Here in South Dakota, I received a driver’s license in about 20 minutes after completing the exam.
I fought with the DMV for 3 months on the phone to get them to stop trying to bill me for registration fees, AFTER I had told them that I no longer lived in the state.

My 2 examples of ineptitude.

 

[Carmine]

California is a disaster. They don’t even have the capability to issue a driver’s license at the DMV there (they mail it a couple of weeks later). Here in South Dakota, I received a driver’s license in about 20 minutes after completing the exam.
I fought with the DMV for 3 months on the phone to get them to stop trying to bill me for registration fees, AFTER I had told them that I no longer lived in the state.

My 2 examples of ineptitude.

Take away fantastic weather and see how long anyone stays. Now that those most able to move have found they get 90% of the weather for 50% of the cost, Arizona is well on a path to being ruined.

As for the "giant economy" argument... It's a (the) port for Asian imports into the world's highest transaction price market! Think that might have an effect, lol?

 

[Jakter]

The weaponization of the DMV?

 

[stubs300]

I personally believe California is generally a well run given all the problems present with so many people. Since this state is the 4th or 5th largest economy in the world, they must be doing some things right. I live here and can speak from experience while others really know little about the State from what I am reading but they know it all anyway.

Keep drinkin the kool-aid bubba and stay in CA!

 

[Mid70's Chrysler Fanatic]

As a result of an ever increasing lack of common sense, the next generation may well have to learn to eat bugs cooked with a magnifying glass if the green wacko's have their way.

Google coughed up plenty of results (mainstream media, not conspiracy websites) to back this up. I was going to post some examples, but they were yucky enough that even pictures of new Toyotas could work as eyebleach.

California is a disaster. They don’t even have the capability to issue a driver’s license at the DMV there (they mail it a couple of weeks later). Here in South Dakota, I received a driver’s license in about 20 minutes after completing the exam.
I fought with the DMV for 3 months on the phone to get them to stop trying to bill me for registration fees, AFTER I had told them that I no longer lived in the state.

My 2 examples of ineptitude.

When I moved back to Nebraska from Iowa, the license office gave me my temporary license on 8-1/2 by 11 paper that couldn’t be trimmed or shrunken. Had to carry that folded wad in my wallet until my regular one came in the mail - also two weeks. Pain in the ***.

 

[73Coupe]

Wow, we have all the characters coming to bat on this one. Even @Jakter and @stubs300 in back to back posts. Nice.

Consensus: Yes, the DMV sucks. California blows on many levels but is still cool in many more ways and is my home. The only reason I can stay is because I (barely) "got in" to the housing market 20 years ago, otherwise I'd be doing a Polara Dave and heading to Idaho. So instead of complaining or leaving I'm getting involved in my local government in the capacity that I am able and trying to make a difference. I am the odd man out here though.

Anyways, @saforwardlook has helped out greatly and found the correct sticker for my car, what is believed to be 3577749 (RH side below) Perf. Graphics makes this I am hoping.

So I'm thinking I'll order one, install it, and take the car back to the DMV and tell them that they missed it on the first inspection. The car is dry docked right now so it'll be a few weeks yet before I am able to go back.

 

[Jakter]

When I moved back to Nebraska from Iowa, the license office gave me my temporary license on 8-1/2 by 11 paper that couldn’t be trimmed or shrunken. Had to carry that folded wad in my wallet until my regular one came in the mail - also two weeks. Pain in the ***.

LOL, the horror!