440 identification inquiry

[Northern Australia]

Hi all

As we do from time to time, I found myself looking at an interesting vehicle that I could become attached to for a time should the universe align in a particular way.

I only have very limited details available, but is it possible to determine from the cast numbers in what type of vehicle the engine was originally installed in or built for?

It is a 1977 engine and I am mindful many (perhaps even most) 440s around that time were low compression engines installed for heavy duty work rather engines that were intended to perform. The owner doesn’t know what type of vehicle the 440 was taken from.

Or were all 440s by 1977 relatively sedate compared to those manufactured in earlier years?

I will drive the vehicle next week, and though I should do some due diligence before hand.

Thanks in advance to the Mopar community.

Daniel from Darwin

View attachment 746163

 

[Fireflite56]

The block should have the VIN stamped into it if it's from that vintage and that will tell you what it came out of. I'm not sure where that was stamped in 1977; maybe someone can chime in here. Otherwise, check the top of the block near the oil pressure sensor or down along both sides of the block above the oil pan.

 

[69CoronetRT]

The block should have the VIN stamped into it if it's from that vintage and that will tell you what it came out of. I'm not sure where that was stamped in 1977; maybe someone can chime in here. Otherwise, check the top of the block near the oil pressure sensor or down along both sides of the block above the oil pan.

IF it is even stamped, a '68 VIN will be on the back of the block by the oil sending unit.
69 and later will be on a pad on the passenger's side of the block.

A partial VIN can narrow down what the engine came out of as we know what plants built what cars for each model year.

After that, if you have a large enough data base, you can bracket the VIN to determine what make (Plymouth, Dodge, Chrysler, Imperial) or Model (Satellite/Coronet/Charger or Fury/Polara) was installed. After that, you may have to know specific applications for certain engine assemblies i.e. 340s only came in certain makes and models or a 383 or 440 HP vs non HP. Determining what an engine came out of can be done if you have the right info.

 

[CBODY67]

To go along with the VIN or partial VIN stamps on the block, also look at the casting date and casting number on the side of the block. The casting date will pre-date the production/machining/assembly date of the engine, possibly up to about 6 months, as I understand it.

By that point in time, any of the OEM 440s and 440HP engines (cars and light trucks) would have been factory-rated at 8.2CR. We also know that that is the "blueprint spec", but most had a wee bit more deck height and a wee bit more cc in the combustion chamber, normally. ALL of which would allow for future machining as needed in rebuild situations.

IF the engine is totally unmolested/un-rebuilt, then the OEM factory specs can apply. IF the engine has been rebuilt . . . no such guarantees as to what was put into the motor when rebuilt.

Just some thoughts,
CBODY67

 

[Northern Australia]

Thank you all - as always, very helpful.

I find it interesting that people don’t ask where a replacement engine came from. As a result, the information isn’t passed from one owner to the next.

It seems most people are most interested in the displacement figure alone and presume performance can be reasonably estimated from just that metric. As we know, there is a bit more to performance than displacement alone, and the performance of some engines (including the 440) changed a fair bit over time.

Thanks again from Daniel in Darwin

 

[Lefty71]

It seems most people are most interested in the displacement figure alone and presume performance

Indeed, your typical backwoods Chevy oriented car flipper knows the "mighty 440" is your best choice to get that junker flipped no matter if the motor came from a '65 or '78 model year car. This is even more prevalent in the B-body world. Some of us know better.

 

[Northern Australia]

Indeed, your typical backwoods Chevy oriented car flipper knows the "mighty 440" is your best choice to get that junker flipped no matter if the motor came from a '65 or '78 model year car. This is even more prevalent in the B-body world. Some of us know better.

Absolutely. Seems to have worked in this case. The vehicle sold before I could test drive it

 

[PursuitSpecial]

To go along with the VIN or partial VIN stamps on the block, also look at the casting date and casting number on the side of the block. The casting date will pre-date the production/machining/assembly date of the engine, possibly up to about 6 months, as I understand it.

By that point in time, any of the OEM 440s and 440HP engines (cars and light trucks) would have been factory-rated at 8.2CR. We also know that that is the "blueprint spec", but most had a wee bit more deck height and a wee bit more cc in the combustion chamber, normally. ALL of which would allow for future machining as needed in rebuild situations.

IF the engine is totally unmolested/un-rebuilt, then the OEM factory specs can apply. IF the engine has been rebuilt . . . no such guarantees as to what was put into the motor when rebuilt.

Just some thoughts,
CBODY67

In 1977, the HP engine was actually lower compression than the standard engine at 7.8:1 according to my service manual. The heavy duty piston had a lower pin height than the standard, for whatever reason, maybe emissions?

The ID pad on the block and partial VIN should tell you everything you need to know about the engine. Any special markings related to factory oversize/undersize journals or bore and application information will be stamped here. In 1977, if a 440 block is marked HP or HP2 it almost certainly came out of a police car, either a (Gran) Fury or (Royal) Monaco because those were the only cars you could get that in, and it had lots of valuable heavy duty components from the factory. If it has a T stamp after the 440 stamp it's likely out of a truck/motor home, especially if it lacks a block VIN too. However, I have seen blocks that were actually in trucks without a T, but with an E for cast crank. Recently I came across one that had both a T and a HP which implied it was out of a police truck or something, but the markings were dubious.

A block not stamped HP or T would have to be out a regular C-body, since that was the only other application, the factory ID in the VIN would narrow it down further.