1969 Imperial progress thread

[Big_John]

I suspect that the softer urethanes have durability issues.

When VTA redid the drivetrain in my bus, they installed aftermarket urethane engine mounts, and the mounts ended up failing in less than 15K miles. They were a much softer material than you typically find with the aftermarket suspension bushings.

Jeff

From a couple of examples I've seen, I've noted that some repop rubber items are very durable either.

I'm assuming that it's because low production rubber is some sort of hand mix, room temperature poured product. On the other hand, I have used pre-made urethane and cut/machined it to size that is very durable. We used it in some quick and dirty cutting dies and it always outlasted the dies and was reused over and over. Of course, that was in compression and not in a shear force.

Not to say either is right!! Or wrong!!

This is more of a "thinking out loud" exercise for fun!

 

[3175375]

Lots of discussions regarding vibration isolation and interfaces.

I don’t have a gob of experience in these matters, but in military hardware, we used Delrin for hard mounting electronic boxes and Lords shock mounts for boxes that require a dampened environment.

In this application, I think delrin would work and may be a bit firm. I too feel that if you are going to have an isolator made, I would recommend a firmer urethane, but I certainly am not an expert.

 

[vdk2010]

If you were referring to comments about using polyurethane to make the mounts, you said "Oh, you're gonna hate some of my future decisions " in response to Matt's input above.

Every time I used poly urethane anything it made the car miserable to drive because it absorbed nothing.

No, not about pu in particular, I was referring to other decisions I made and will make. Like the rear sway bar for example. I'm pretty sure you purists dont like that either.

 

[vdk2010]

About the isolators, I will see. Fortunately I have two sets of them. I have removed the old rubber from one of them. These parts are going to be zinc plated next and then I will try to make nice PU isolators. If they really suck or fail, I can still send the others out to get them revulcanized with rubber.

But for now, the show must go on.

 

[saforwardlook]

No, not about pu in particular, I was referring to other decisions I made and will make. Like the rear sway bar for example. I'm pretty sure you purists dont like that either.

I guess I am neutral regarding the rear sway bar because it would not ruin the mystique of an Imperial going down the highway in comfort and quiet with a real luxury feel. I personally would not be driving an Imperial aggressively around corners so a rear sway bar would not benefit me to make it worthwhile - and a rear sway bar would not affect the ride comfort.

Chrysler's original frame mounts in the torsion-quiet ride system seemed to go the distance with out really failing either. There is no benefit of typical polyurethane mounts in these systems if you are not going to obtain a quiet ride, so just make them out of steel and they won't deteriorate either.

I can't believe we are really having this disussion. I'm sure no Cadillac or Lincoln owner would accept a noisy harsh ride either.

Why recreate a car to such a high level of detail excellence and substitute bushings that take the original elegance in motion away? When this car is done, if it will be so perfect in details it really won't be driven then maybe it wouldn't matter what you do.

I will be interested in what you do to deal with the Autotemp 1 system in this car yet to be addressed I believe.

While I can certainly admire the detail exellence and degree of over-restoration of this Imperial, I do stuggle to understand the purpose of going to such an extreme in details to make it much better than original when at the end of the assembly line 52 years ago. But to each his own................it is certainly a jaw dropping effort!

 

[patrick66]

The thing is, there are things on an Imperial to do that will make the car handle better, but not really sacrifice the original ride quality. There is so much mass in an Imperial compared to a Duster, let's say; where if you are using "X"-style bushing in the same place on each car, the effects you'll feel in ride quality are more pronounced in the Duster. The sheer weight and size of the Imperial mutes much of that harshness. Durability is enhanced. Drive quality is improved, IMO. Plus, it is Julian's Imperial and he intends to actually drive the car. Driving in Germany is a different and far more enjoyable experience that driving similar-style roads in North America. Might as well build the car to suit that purpose!

 

[saforwardlook]

Chrysler spent a LOT of money to make the subframe within the stubframe to cradle the engine and isolate the passenger compartment from unwanted vibrations so that putting more stiff mounts for that subframe would affect the idle quality and noise more than anything. I guess it therefore depends on just where the enhanced bushings would go. To make an Imperial more of a "handler" seems to be an effort never intended for the original production car. But if targeting the car for better handling on the Autobahn or country roads is the goal, then that is more important than preserving the "aura" of the original vehicle. So to me, this is more of a "custom" restoration than one that preserves the original car - which is fine if that is the owners choice. I was just trying to sort out the goals of this effort more.

Thanks for the discussion.................NOT intended to diss the owner at all.

 

[vdk2010]

I guess I am neutral regarding the rear sway bar because it would not ruin the mystique of an Imperial going down the highway in comfort and quiet with a real luxury feel. I personally would not be driving an Imperial aggressively around corners so a rear sway bar would not benefit me to make it worthwhile - and a rear sway bar would not affect the ride comfort.

Chrysler's original frame mounts in the torsion-quiet ride system seemed to go the distance with out really failing either. There is no benefit of typical polyurethane mounts in these systems if you are not going to obtain a quiet ride, so just make them out of steel and they won't deteriorate either.

I can't believe we are really having this disussion. I'm sure no Cadillac or Lincoln owner would accept a noisy harsh ride either.

Why recreate a car to such a high level of detail excellence and substitute bushings that take the original elegance in motion away? When this car is done, if it will be so perfect in details it really won't be driven then maybe it wouldn't matter what you do.

I will be interested in what you do to deal with the Autotemp 1 system in this car yet to be addressed I believe.

While I can certainly admire the detail exellence and degree of over-restoration of this Imperial, I do stuggle to understand the purpose of going to such an extreme in details to make it much better than original when at the end of the assembly line 52 years ago. But to each his own................it is certainly a jaw dropping effort!

It's not instantly a harch or noisy ride just because I use PU torsion bar isolators..! All the other suspension components remain rubber.
And apart from this, Chryler models like the 300 or the new Yorker have neither of these bushings and they are not riding harsch in any way.

And about your question why I'm doing things the way I do: The simple answer is, I don't need reasons. Not everything needs a specific reason or a higher cause.
I'm feeling like it and for me the journey is the reward. I like restoring parts as a hobby, not restoring a car to have a finished car.
I love the look of the 69 Imperial and if it happens to ride like a Chrysler in the end, I'm fine with that as well.

 

[vdk2010]

Chrysler spent a LOT of money to make the subframe within the stubframe to cradle the engine and isolate the passenger compartment from unwanted vibrations so that putting more stiff mounts for that subframe would affect the idle quality and noise more than anything. I guess it therefore depends on just where the enhanced bushings would go. To make an Imperial more of a "handler" seems to be an effort never intended for the original production car. But if targeting the car for better handling on the Autobahn or country roads is the goal, then that is more important than preserving the "aura" of the original vehicle. So to me, this is more of a "custom" restoration than one that preserves the original car - which is fine if that is the owners choice. I was just trying to sort out the goals of this effort more.

Thanks for the discussion.................NOT intended to diss the owner at all.

Totally! In my eyes, it's a custom restoration from the beginning. There are plenty "survivor" Imperial out there and I love them all, but for me, after all the efford I've put into my restoration, I'm gonna build the car exactly like I want to, not what others think I "should".
No offense, just my opinion about this.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

I think adding a sway bar or stiffening some things may not be a bad thing. One reason is the car is in Germany, running at 100 mph for a lengthy time is a reality that you pretty much cannot do east of the Mississippi and up and down the west coast (always some jackass in the left lane checking Facebook). A sway bar should not affect suspension harshness, other than dropping in a hole.
I think it is a good choice trying to foresee the future of the car, besides it is reversible.

 

[Big_John]

besides it is reversible.

^This^

It's not like he's torching it out for the hydraulics....

 

[vdk2010]

September sitrep.
A lot is going on in the background, but not much visible progress to show here lately.

But some good progress is happening!

- My Brake Booster arrived in Portland to get rebuilt.
- My Steering Wheel arrived at D&D in Charlotte, NC to get recasted.
- My new Torsion Bars are finally in the container and on their way to Germany.
- The big rear window, the associated stainless and the interior metal trim pieces I bought from Wyatt @71Polara383 arrived save and sound in Germany after 16 weeks in transit..!

- Another small batch of parts came back from zinc and nickel plating.

- Right now I'm in the middle of prepping all the seat parts to get all the upholstery done. I have to bolt multiple parts to the frames that can't be reached afterwards.

Also I failed to repair a broken part on the lower driver seat before CDC and paint, so I had to fix that now...

I forgot to make more pictures but I painted everything black afterwards.

Next, I have to prep the door boards and the package tray to get "reupholstered" as well.


And, finally, here is a quick sneak peek of what is coming next ;)

 

[LeBaron1973]

September sitrep.
A lot is going on in the background, but not much visible progress to show here lately.

But some good progress is happening!

- My Brake Booster arrived in Portland to get rebuilt.
- My Steering Wheel arrived at D&D in Charlotte, NC to get recasted.
- My new Torsion Bars are finally in the container and on their way to Germany.
- The big rear window, the associated stainless and the interior metal trim pieces I bought from Wyatt @71Polara383 arrived save and sound in Germany after 16 weeks in transit..!
- Another small batch of parts came back from zinc and nickel plating.
View attachment 488236

- Right now I'm in the middle of prepping all the seat parts to get all the upholstery done. I have to bolt multiple parts to the frames that can't be reached afterwards.

Also I failed to repair a broken part on the lower driver seat before CDC and paint, so I had to fix that now...
View attachment 488221 View attachment 488222 View attachment 488223 View attachment 488224
I forgot to make more pictures but I painted everything black afterwards.

Next, I have to prep the door boards and the package tray to get "reupholstered" as well.


And, finally, here is a quick sneak peek of what is coming next ;)
View attachment 488235 View attachment 488234 View attachment 488233

Beautiful color Julian, must be a good feeling to start the reassembly.
Great news.

 

[detmatt]

Wow, that color!

 

[vdk2010]

It's as close to the original M9 Deep Plum as it gonna gets!
It took us 6 Month, 7 paint manufacturers and 18 sample cards to get to this point and I'm really happy with the color!
It's a pretty difficult color to match, because it looks too brown or too purple quickly.

 

[commando1]

Wow, that color!

X2

 

[MrMoparCHP]

I sent my steering wheel to D&D as well, too bad they are different.


Alan

 

[vdk2010]

I sent my steering wheel to D&D as well, too bad they are different.


Alan

He was really happy about my steering wheel. He said he loves the look of it and he it's the perfect wheel to make a mold from because it has only one little crack.
It's very expensive but the only way to get rid of the horrible puke-like smell.

 

[patrick66]

Impressive as always, Julian!

Beeindruckend wie immer! (I had to look up "impressive"! LOL!)

Still working on exercising my limited German vocabulary now and then; it's been nearly 30 years since I lived there!

 

[vdk2010]

Impressive as always, Julian!

Beeindruckend wie immer! (I had to look up "impressive"! LOL!)

Still working on exercising my limited German vocabulary now and then; it's been nearly 30 years since I lived there!

Thanks Patrick! ;)

And pretty good! Beeindruckend is a difficult word, so no worries ;)