1969 Imperial progress thread

[Big_John]

That is what I love doing. Unfortunately, it is more of a curse than a blessing most times. I learned that trying to get someone else, you have to rely on, to match your standards is not fun to do. It will take more time, but I will finish this project in a way I will be proud of eventually!

There are "only" two financially big things still on the Todo list (besides a lot of small things which will sum up too of course) ...
The engine and Interior (I’m going to try and reuse the vinyl from the door boards, but the seats have to be completely new.)

I decided to do the Engine next, because I can do more things around it then when doing the seats first.

So next thing will be getting all the engine parts into the hot tank and then to the machine shop.
The machine owner will also help me picking the right parts I will have to buy to do a proper rebuild on my engine.
I will post the finished list of parts on here as well when I have it to get opinions from you guys as well.


So last week, I started engine work by removing all the dowel pins and expansion/pipe plugs and then grinding away all the casting flashes on the block.
Still ways to go with that, but the temperatures dropped into the negatives in my shop again...

All of the dowel pins were stuck in the block so I had to weld nuts to every single one of them in order to attach a slide hammer to them to get them out. But in the end, that worked just fine.

View attachment 704805

Are you planning on resurfacing the engine deck? That's the only reason to take those out.

Be careful with what you replace them with. I've seen guys snap off hardened deck pins, so I stick with the non-hardened pins like original.

 

[vdk2010]

Yes. Thanks. Something still not right. Appears I have no cam to move it. I took it loose and ran the motor and manually connecting the points did nothing either even when the switch was turned off. I tested the switch and it's perfect according to FSM but I still have 1 speed and no park. I'm going too order a rebuild kit and try that. I think the gear is the problem.

there are different styles if internals on these motors. Maybe you have a mix match of different versions?!

Here is my sotck 1969 Motor:

And this id from my 1972 Imperial dornor car:

Gear and Cam are both different.

 

[vdk2010]

Are you planning on resurfacing the engine deck? That's the only reason to take those out.

Be careful with what you replace them with. I've seen guys snap off hardened deck pins, so I stick with the non-hardened pins like original.

I think the machine shop is going to resurface the block, yes. That's the plan at least. but they will measure everything and see if it's necessary.
I pulled the dowel pins no matter what, so they don't have to. Machine shop time is expensive.

I'm planning to buy new pins from 440 source. They don't say anything about if they are hardened or not. But I will ask them. I have a list of questions for them anyway. Thanks for the tip!
Cylinder Head Dowel Pins (For the Deck and the Timing Cover pins)
Engine Block to Bellhousing Dowel Pins

 

[jmustian]

there are different styles if internals on these motors. Maybe you have a mix match of different versions?!

Here is my sotck 1969 Motor:
View attachment 704887

And this id from my 1972 Imperial dornor car:
View attachment 704888

Gear and Cam are both different.

Thanks. Mine looks like your 69. It must be the cover switch or wiring. I found the speeds. Dash switch must be grounded. Still no park.

 

[ceebuddy]

Yes. Thanks. Something still not right. Appears I have no cam to move it. I took it loose and ran the motor and manually connecting the points did nothing either even when the switch was turned off. I tested the switch and it's perfect according to FSM but I still have 1 speed and no park. I'm going too order a rebuild kit and try that. I think the gear is the problem.

When you move the wiper switch in the "off" position, the rotation of the actual motor is reversed. The big white gear then moves in a way so that the slope cast into the white gear moves a lever hinged to the cover to a more inward position. This lever then gets caught in the hook which is attached to the cam on the output shaft. The cam then moves the output shaft excentrically thereby elongating the travel of the wiper linkage, allowing it to move the wipers down into the park position. This movement stops when the pin cast into the cam opens the switch located in the cover, interrupting current to feed the motor running in the "park" direction.

If the park stop switch is bent open, the wiper won't reverse, so no park. The wipers will basically stop at whatever position they are when you move the switch to the "off" postion.

On the earlier wiper motor models, if the grease is old and chunky it might keep the hook of the cam to move outwards, so it is not caught by the lever mounted to the cover, resulting in a contiuous movement. On the newer type motors the same can happen if the spring pushing the cam outward breaks.

Note that the cover has a small metal tab which must be set into the correct detent cast into the wiper motor housing. Which of these locations is the correct one depends on the body line as the three speed wiper was also used on B- and E-bodies. For a C-body, it is the upper one.

Another Thread is very informative on wiper motors.

 

[jmustian]

You are my new F'in hero. Great work.

I tried to repair mine. Cleaned everything, replaced bad wires etc, not as nice as yours, but cannot get park to work no matter what I try.

 

[jmustian]

When you move the wiper switch in the "off" position, the rotation of the actual motor is reversed. The big white gear then moves in a way so that the slope cast into the white gear moves a lever hinged to the cover to a more inward position. This lever then gets caught in the hook which is attached to the cam on the output shaft. The cam then moves the output shaft excentrically thereby elongating the travel of the wiper linkage, allowing it to move the wipers down into the park position. This movement stops when the pin cast into the cam opens the switch located in the cover, interrupting current to feed the motor running in the "park" direction.

If the park stop switch is bent open, the wiper won't reverse, so no park. The wipers will basically stop at whatever position they are when you move the switch to the "off" postion.

On the earlier wiper motor models, if the grease is old and chunky it might keep the hook of the cam to move outwards, so it is not caught by the lever mounted to the cover, resulting in a contiuous movement. On the newer type motors the same can happen if the spring pushing the cam outward breaks.

Note that the cover has a small metal tab which must be set into the correct detent cast into the wiper motor housing. Which of these locations is the correct one depends on the body line as the three speed wiper was also used on B- and E-bodies. For a C-body, it is the upper one.

Another Thread is very informative on wiper motors.

FIXED. I kept putting the cover back on with the switch on wrong side of center post

 

[vdk2010]

I dropped my engine parts off at the machine shop last weekend and talked with them for 3,5 hours about what my goals are and which parts I should buy.

My stock cast iron heads are junk, so going with aluminum cylinder heads is out of question.
First I wanted to go with the 440 source Stealth Cylinder Heads, but the engine builder didn't like that they have the same general combustion chamber design and spark plug orientation as the OEM heads. Apparently, it’s a known problem of the OEM head design, that the spark plugs don’t reach far enough into the combustion chamber which results in a suboptimal combustion.

He recommended the Trick Flow PowerPort 240 heads since they have a way better design. They are almost twice as expensive, but I will go with them anyway.

Further he told me, that he had too much trouble with flat tappet camshafts in the past few years. Apparently, the quality of flat tappet camshafts nosedived for a while now... Because of that, he does not offer to use them anymore. I was planning to go with a hydraulic roller setup anyway, so I am fine with that.

Initially, I was planning to use the 440 source Bushed Stainless Rocker Arms, but he talked me out of it, because it’s not necessary for my targeted RPM range. My OEM stamped steel ones are in excellent condition and just fine, so I plan on reusing them.

I hope I can reuse the stock rods as well, but that depends on the final bore size and the resulting compression ratio. Maybe it will be necessary to increase the stroke a little bit.

I had the vision of a “Sporty Luxurious Coupe” since I started my restoration. So that’s the goal.
She will still be a cruiser, but I want to have a little more power available when I want a little fun.

Below is a list of parts I am considering right now. Any feedback, recommendations and general input is much appreciated!

Because one cylinder has some rust, I don't know the final bore size yet. So, all the related parts are just placeholders for now, until I know the final bore size.

Cylinder Heads, Trick Flow Power Port 240 for Hydraulic Roller Cams (TFS-61617802-C00)	154-1001​
Howards Cams Retrofit Hydraulic Roller Camshafts	HRS-723515-12​
Mahle PowerPak Piston and Ring Kit	MLE-929962750​
Comp Cams HCT Evolution Cartridge Hydraulic Roller Lifters	145-1022​
Stock Rocker Assembly	---​
Stock Rods	---​
MELLING Oil Pump Repair Kit	K63​
	​
Rod Bearings - Clevite H-Series	CLE-CB527HXND​
Main Bearings - Clevite H-Series	CLE- MS1277HG​
Camshaft Bearings - Clevite	CLE-SH876S​
	​
Edelbrock Performer 440 Intake Manifold	EDL-2191​
Engine Block Oil Passage Enlargement Drill Bit 12	200-1140​
Sheet Metal Valley Pan - Dual Plane	127-1010​
Rear Main Seal Cap - Billet Aluminum	200-1031​
Windage Tray - Stock Stroke	127-1030​
	​
Premium Light Weight High Torque Mini Starter	123-1000​
ARP High Performance Series Cylinder Head Bolt Kits	ARP-145-3606​

For exhaust I will use TTI long tube headers and their 2.5” exhaust system.

C-BODY 1-7/8" 440 Headers, Ceramic Coated with a Thermal Barrier	# TTi C6573-440178C4​
O2 Sensor Bungs + Installation in Header Collectors Installed in Reducer/Adapters	# MISC-02RED​
X-Pipe design exhaust system from Headers back to rear Bumper, Blunt-cut, no tips	# C25 HWM​

And, last but not least, ignition system and fuel injection will come from Holley.

Holley Sniper 2 EFI 650 HP Base Fuel Injection Systems + Power Distribution Module (PDM) + Bluetooth Module	550-511-BPX
Holley Sniper HyperSpark Ready to Run Small Cap Distributor	565-346
Holley Sniper EFI HyperSpark 2 CD Ignition Box	556-154
Holley Sniper EFI HyperSpark Ignition Coil	556-152
Holley Sniper OE Style 255 LPH EFI Fuel Pump Module (B-Body)	12-314
Holley EFI Filter Regulator	12-876
Holley 100 GPH HP Billet Fuel Filter	162-550
Black Mounting Bracket HP and VR Series Billet Fuel Filters	162-574

It will take some time to gather all the parts, tho… This stuff is expensive! But I will get there eventually!

 

[vdk2010]

 

[3175375]

View attachment 707077

View attachment 707078

View attachment 707079

View attachment 707076

You’re continuing the excellent level of detail and craftsmanship that is aligned with the Imperial name!yummy!

 

[vdk2010]

The Engine is fresh out of the hot tank now. I cleaned off all the casting flashings before that. The Block is ready to get rebuilt now.

 

[vdk2010]

I dropped the engine off at the machine shop on Friday, today they already started working on it.

First step after an initial assessment of all the parts was to check the Crankshaft. Other then minor straightening it just needed a good polishing.
The dings you see are there from the factory...

 

[Boydsdodge]

I dropped my engine parts off at the machine shop last weekend and talked with them for 3,5 hours about what my goals are and which parts I should buy.

My stock cast iron heads are junk, so going with aluminum cylinder heads is out of question.
First I wanted to go with the 440 source Stealth Cylinder Heads, but the engine builder didn't like that they have the same general combustion chamber design and spark plug orientation as the OEM heads. Apparently, it’s a known problem of the OEM head design, that the spark plugs don’t reach far enough into the combustion chamber which results in a suboptimal combustion.

He recommended the Trick Flow PowerPort 240 heads since they have a way better design. They are almost twice as expensive, but I will go with them anyway.

Further he told me, that he had too much trouble with flat tappet camshafts in the past few years. Apparently, the quality of flat tappet camshafts nosedived for a while now... Because of that, he does not offer to use them anymore. I was planning to go with a hydraulic roller setup anyway, so I am fine with that.

Initially, I was planning to use the 440 source Bushed Stainless Rocker Arms, but he talked me out of it, because it’s not necessary for my targeted RPM range. My OEM stamped steel ones are in excellent condition and just fine, so I plan on reusing them.

I hope I can reuse the stock rods as well, but that depends on the final bore size and the resulting compression ratio. Maybe it will be necessary to increase the stroke a little bit.

I had the vision of a “Sporty Luxurious Coupe” since I started my restoration. So that’s the goal.
She will still be a cruiser, but I want to have a little more power available when I want a little fun.

Below is a list of parts I am considering right now. Any feedback, recommendations and general input is much appreciated!

Because one cylinder has some rust, I don't know the final bore size yet. So, all the related parts are just placeholders for now, until I know the final bore size.

Cylinder Heads, Trick Flow Power Port 240 for Hydraulic Roller Cams (TFS-61617802-C00)	154-1001​
Howards Cams Retrofit Hydraulic Roller Camshafts	HRS-723515-12​
Mahle PowerPak Piston and Ring Kit	MLE-929962750​
Comp Cams HCT Evolution Cartridge Hydraulic Roller Lifters	145-1022​
Stock Rocker Assembly	---​
Stock Rods	---​
MELLING Oil Pump Repair Kit	K63​
	​
Rod Bearings - Clevite H-Series	CLE-CB527HXND​
Main Bearings - Clevite H-Series	CLE- MS1277HG​
Camshaft Bearings - Clevite	CLE-SH876S​
	​
Edelbrock Performer 440 Intake Manifold	EDL-2191​
Engine Block Oil Passage Enlargement Drill Bit 12	200-1140​
Sheet Metal Valley Pan - Dual Plane	127-1010​
Rear Main Seal Cap - Billet Aluminum	200-1031​
Windage Tray - Stock Stroke	127-1030​
	​
Premium Light Weight High Torque Mini Starter	123-1000​
ARP High Performance Series Cylinder Head Bolt Kits	ARP-145-3606​

For exhaust I will use TTI long tube headers and their 2.5” exhaust system.

C-BODY 1-7/8" 440 Headers, Ceramic Coated with a Thermal Barrier	# TTi C6573-440178C4​
O2 Sensor Bungs + Installation in Header Collectors Installed in Reducer/Adapters	# MISC-02RED​
X-Pipe design exhaust system from Headers back to rear Bumper, Blunt-cut, no tips	# C25 HWM​

And, last but not least, ignition system and fuel injection will come from Holley.

Holley Sniper 2 EFI 650 HP Base Fuel Injection Systems + Power Distribution Module (PDM) + Bluetooth Module	550-511-BPX
Holley Sniper HyperSpark Ready to Run Small Cap Distributor	565-346
Holley Sniper EFI HyperSpark 2 CD Ignition Box	556-154
Holley Sniper EFI HyperSpark Ignition Coil	556-152
Holley Sniper OE Style 255 LPH EFI Fuel Pump Module (B-Body)	12-314
Holley EFI Filter Regulator	12-876
Holley 100 GPH HP Billet Fuel Filter	162-550
Black Mounting Bracket HP and VR Series Billet Fuel Filters	162-574

It will take some time to gather all the parts, tho… This stuff is expensive! But I will get there eventually!

If I may say. I stay away from the comp roller lifters, I had two bad sets out of the box. I went with the Hughes retro fit rollers, Howards is a good supplier as well. I have not had any problems with Howards so far. The 440 source heads are a good selection and as the name says they have a hidden stealth look. Make sure you can use stock rockers on the Trick flow heads.

 

[vdk2010]

If I may say. I stay away from the comp roller lifters, I had two bad sets out of the box. I went with the Hughes retro fit rollers, Howards is a good supplier as well. I have not had any problems with Howards so far. The 440 source heads are a good selection and as the name says they have a hidden stealth look. Make sure you can use stock rockers on the Trick flow heads.

Thanks! Good information on the Comp Lifters. I thought about using the Howards Lifters that 440 Source offers instead. I will look into that!

My Engine builder was not happy with the combustion chamber design of the 440 Source Stealth Heads, which have the same design as the OEM Heads.
Apparently, the spark plug location is too far on the side of the combustion chamber. The Trick Flow heads, as many others, have the Spark plug reaching further into the combustion chamber which optimises the combustion due to a better/faster expansion of the flame front (I hope I got that right).
440 Source states in the description of the trick flow heads, that the stock rockers work with them. "These interchange with all factory style components such as pistons, rocker arms, intakes and headers, so very little "special" items are required."

 

[vdk2010]

Great news, the block came out not needing any sleeves!! They bored it 0.055" over and all the rust, pitting and even shadows cleaned up nicely.

 

[73Coupe]

Great news, the block came out not needing any sleeves!! They bored it 0.055" over and all the rust, pitting and even shadows cleaned up nicely.

View attachment 710386View attachment 710385View attachment 710384View attachment 710383View attachment 710382View attachment 710381View attachment 710380View attachment 710379

Very nice looking block. Good to see that the cleaning tank also removed the rust, that means that the water jackets are clean and will provide maximum cooling efficiency and you won't have any rust scale getting into the radiator.
0.055" over - so that probably means that they'll clean up the last 0.005" with the hone to make it an even 0.060".

 

[vdk2010]

Very nice looking block. Good to see that the cleaning tank also removed the rust, that means that the water jackets are clean and will provide maximum cooling efficiency and you won't have any rust scale getting into the radiator.
0.055" over - so that probably means that they'll clean up the last 0.005" with the hone to make it an even 0.060".

Indeed! The block looks pretty nice, a little bit of dirt is left in the block, but hardly any rust.

4.375" (0.055" over) is going to be the final measurement. The Mahle PowerPak Pistons I'm gonna use are available for that measurement!
The cylinders are not bored to that final measuremnt yet. My engine builder will measure the new pistons first and then bore them to a final size according to the exact piston diameter.

 

[73Coupe]

Indeed! The block looks pretty nice, a little bit of dirt is left in the block, but hardly any rust.

4.375" (0.055" over) is going to be the final measurement. The Mahle PowerPak Pistons I'm gonna use are available for that measurement!
The cylinders are not bored to that final measuremnt yet. My engine builder will measure the new pistons first and then bore them to a final size according to the exact piston diameter.

Ah, ok. Less is more, and better!

 

[Big_John]

4.375" (0.055" over) is going to be the final measurement. The Mahle PowerPak Pistons I'm gonna use are available for that measurement!
The cylinders are not bored to that final measuremnt yet. My engine builder will measure the new pistons first and then bore them to a final size according to the exact piston diameter.

I was wondering if there were pistons in that size. Interesting....

This pic had me chuckling. A bare block hanging from a forklift. I don't think I ever saw a machine shop around here pick up a bare block like that. 1 or 2 guys for a 225lb Mopar, but small block Chevys were a one person lift. Your shop is probably used to smaller European engines.

I can't say anything though... My days of lifting a big block by myself are long gone.

 

[vdk2010]

Ah, ok. Less is more, and better!

Yes, in this case the 0.055" was less!
The other option would have been to sleeve the 2 worst cylinders and have them bore all the "good" cylinders just 0,020 over.
But to do so, they would have needed to bore these 2 bad cylinders about 0.120" over (~3mm) to put the sleeves in.
That would have been Plan B if the 0.055" wouldn't have cleaned up the rust, but fortunately it did!