Spot welds, rivets and screws were all used. Screws were common on Newark cars. A lot of the build tags also had pre-drilled holes for screws.
Dave
Dave
1971 GY3 Sport Fury 383 6 Pack Protoype
- Thread starter 1978 NYB
- Start date
69CoronetRT
Senior Member
Belvedere was the only plant that used rivets during this time frame. The car in question is from the Belvedere plant.
It has screws and not rivets you should expect to find.
Another car with 827 SPD. The inspection tag on this fender tag (under the upper left corner) is still present. I don't see it on the car in question.
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My 70 Fury was built in the Belvedere plant and my fender tag was screwed on.
69CoronetRT
Senior Member
That's very possible. The use of screws vs rivets seems to change during the fall of 1969. It looks like screws are used very early (80* SPDs), then rivets in Sept and Oct until about mid October when screws are used. (I have a B05 with rivets and B13 with screws). It looks like rivets are back by February and used until the end. Some cars seem to have come with both.
Research continues. More examples are always appreciated.
But for this thread, we're talking 1971.
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fc7_plumcrazy
Old Man with a Hat
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all the tiny details change from year to year and plant to plant.
GregG48203
Active Member
Back in the 1950s and '60s, if you were in the right place at the right time, you may have been able to acquire a prototype car. My dad (who worked over 30 years at Chrysler) owned a 1960 Plymouth station wagon prototype for a few years in the early 1960s. It had hand-hammered sheet metal and a unique front bumper - different than the regular production model. I'm sure that by the 1970s, the prototypes were all crushed before the public could get them, due to liability concerns.
ceebuddy
Well-Known Member
Over on FBBO member patrick66 writes:
»No 383 Six-Pack set-ups from the factory...however, the 383+6 intake was available as a Direct Connection part, and also through Edlebrock. You can indeed have a 383 (or 361 or 400) Six-Pack set-up. Just not off the assembly line. Never, ever.
An "RB" intake (383RB/440/413/426W) intake is NOT interchangeable with a "B" engine (350/361/383B/400), and vice versa.«
»No 383 Six-Pack set-ups from the factory...however, the 383+6 intake was available as a Direct Connection part, and also through Edlebrock. You can indeed have a 383 (or 361 or 400) Six-Pack set-up. Just not off the assembly line. Never, ever.
An "RB" intake (383RB/440/413/426W) intake is NOT interchangeable with a "B" engine (350/361/383B/400), and vice versa.«
barnfind
Old Man with a Hat
Google is your friend, multiplex
I remember seeing MX in my youth, this helps clear some of the muddied water.
Antique Radio Forums • View topic - what is a multiplex
Basics of Stereo Multiplexing for FM Transmission
I remember seeing MX in my youth, this helps clear some of the muddied water.
Antique Radio Forums • View topic - what is a multiplex
Basics of Stereo Multiplexing for FM Transmission
68PK21 440.6bbl
Old Man with a Hat
Told ya it was a hack job.
Wonder what that base is worth now if it was uncut, (prob more than the car)
decal is in wrong place too.
Wonder what that base is worth now if it was uncut, (prob more than the car)
decal is in wrong place too.
68PK21 440.6bbl
Old Man with a Hat
Surprised no one has any comments about the driver side Hi-Po exhaust manifold.
Is that correct for the year? (heat stove fins)
I'd vote no.
Is that correct for the year? (heat stove fins)
I'd vote no.
70 only manifold for sure.
My '70 "N" Monaco has that lh exhaust manifold. How was the '71 different?
The other side of that deal is that Chrysler surely would not have tooled a specific lh exhaust manifold for a prototype engine option. Especially a low volume one. They might have used a pre-hot air air cleaner version, though, from a prior model year. But would have had to configure a supply chain for such from the parts division. Considering that by '70, every OEM engine had a heated air cleaner air supply as a part of the OEM emissions equipment/certifications, ANY factory open-element air cleaner had been discontinued. The warmed air helped the leaner choke calibrations work better in cold weather situations. The factory cowl induction systems still had a basic snorkel air cleaner on them, plus the "open air" system for WOT power. Possibly combining a B-body Air Grabber-style hood with an otherwise closed air cleaner (with exhaust heat) would have been complex and costly to fabricate and offer for sale to the public, I suspect.
There is s difference between "Prototype" and "Pre-Production" vehicles. PT would have been what upper mgt seeks to approve or disapprove of it. Plus what was used for engineering/testing purposes. PP would be the hand-built cars which served to streamline/improve/validate actual production build procedures/techniques, PLUS the initial batch of vehicles to use for destructive testing and final approvals before full production would begin. ALL OEMs do that. These first-runs (sometimes called "Pilot Cars") are built and then handed over to plant officials/managers to drive for on-road final testing. A friend in our Mopar club worked at GM-Arlington when the then-new Buick Roadmasters came online. He was driving one one weekend we had a car show meeting. He would not let anybody else drive it and explained what was going on to us.
After the build validation and related sign-offs, those vehicles could be sold at the manufacturer auctions to dealers or used for destructive safety testing. On later model years after the first one of a particular vehicle family, after the initial testing and such had been done, then you could see low-number vehicles on the new car lots. Like the 000050 VIN on a new Chevy pickup we had one year.
Vehicles without VINs, as show cars and such, later sold at a name-brand consumer auction, are sold on a "bill of sale" document, usually, but can't be sold to a USA buyer for daily use. BUT they can go overseas for sale/use there! Sold "As Is/Where Is" with no warranty. Provided that some museum or private collector does not purchase it for their collection.
One of our Buick club chapter members is a retired, career Buick zone service manager. He said that he had to testify at a court case that a new '65 Wildcat had not been in a collision before the retail owner bought it as "new". The testimony was that on the first group of builds in each (body change) model year, it was sometimes necessary for holes to be drilled (in this case, in the core support) to mount the grille/headlight items . . . on the assembly line. The vehicle VIN supported that it was an "initial build".
And as always, the stories of the 1950s Fords that "got out" with the "100mpg carburetors". Bought off of the car lot, but with phenomenal fuel economy, which Ford tried to buy-back but the customers usually wouldn't sell them.
In the later '50s into the later '60s, IF you could find a dealer's salesperson who knew how to do the order forms, with an appropriate down payment/deposit, you COULD get some interesting vehicles! In other times, some of them were Chrysler Sales Bank cars, using up existing supplies of things that were "over-procured" that didn't sell well or were as desired as some might have suspected. Lots of little dynamics and side issues involved in these things!
These were the times which bought us the '62 Plymouth Savoy 2-dr coupes with the Max Wedge engines, which were raced and then restored back to OEM as-produced (or better) glory which we've seen at Mopar Nats and other places over the years. In many cases, if it would fit, it could be ordered.
Enjoy!
CBODY67
The other side of that deal is that Chrysler surely would not have tooled a specific lh exhaust manifold for a prototype engine option. Especially a low volume one. They might have used a pre-hot air air cleaner version, though, from a prior model year. But would have had to configure a supply chain for such from the parts division. Considering that by '70, every OEM engine had a heated air cleaner air supply as a part of the OEM emissions equipment/certifications, ANY factory open-element air cleaner had been discontinued. The warmed air helped the leaner choke calibrations work better in cold weather situations. The factory cowl induction systems still had a basic snorkel air cleaner on them, plus the "open air" system for WOT power. Possibly combining a B-body Air Grabber-style hood with an otherwise closed air cleaner (with exhaust heat) would have been complex and costly to fabricate and offer for sale to the public, I suspect.
There is s difference between "Prototype" and "Pre-Production" vehicles. PT would have been what upper mgt seeks to approve or disapprove of it. Plus what was used for engineering/testing purposes. PP would be the hand-built cars which served to streamline/improve/validate actual production build procedures/techniques, PLUS the initial batch of vehicles to use for destructive testing and final approvals before full production would begin. ALL OEMs do that. These first-runs (sometimes called "Pilot Cars") are built and then handed over to plant officials/managers to drive for on-road final testing. A friend in our Mopar club worked at GM-Arlington when the then-new Buick Roadmasters came online. He was driving one one weekend we had a car show meeting. He would not let anybody else drive it and explained what was going on to us.
After the build validation and related sign-offs, those vehicles could be sold at the manufacturer auctions to dealers or used for destructive safety testing. On later model years after the first one of a particular vehicle family, after the initial testing and such had been done, then you could see low-number vehicles on the new car lots. Like the 000050 VIN on a new Chevy pickup we had one year.
Vehicles without VINs, as show cars and such, later sold at a name-brand consumer auction, are sold on a "bill of sale" document, usually, but can't be sold to a USA buyer for daily use. BUT they can go overseas for sale/use there! Sold "As Is/Where Is" with no warranty. Provided that some museum or private collector does not purchase it for their collection.
One of our Buick club chapter members is a retired, career Buick zone service manager. He said that he had to testify at a court case that a new '65 Wildcat had not been in a collision before the retail owner bought it as "new". The testimony was that on the first group of builds in each (body change) model year, it was sometimes necessary for holes to be drilled (in this case, in the core support) to mount the grille/headlight items . . . on the assembly line. The vehicle VIN supported that it was an "initial build".
And as always, the stories of the 1950s Fords that "got out" with the "100mpg carburetors". Bought off of the car lot, but with phenomenal fuel economy, which Ford tried to buy-back but the customers usually wouldn't sell them.
In the later '50s into the later '60s, IF you could find a dealer's salesperson who knew how to do the order forms, with an appropriate down payment/deposit, you COULD get some interesting vehicles! In other times, some of them were Chrysler Sales Bank cars, using up existing supplies of things that were "over-procured" that didn't sell well or were as desired as some might have suspected. Lots of little dynamics and side issues involved in these things!
These were the times which bought us the '62 Plymouth Savoy 2-dr coupes with the Max Wedge engines, which were raced and then restored back to OEM as-produced (or better) glory which we've seen at Mopar Nats and other places over the years. In many cases, if it would fit, it could be ordered.
Enjoy!
CBODY67
dart4forte
Well-Known Member
The carb/intake could of been installed by the dealer. That manifold and the carb were an over the counter part.
I concur that this could have been done, back then, at the dealership. To have something different on the lot for the "hot rodders", but at what price? Few people knew to check the date plates or VINs for authenticity. Which could have spawned the "Came from the Factory", rather than "Just as the factory would have built it".
At this point in time, WE know better. But those "bought it that way, from the dealer" (presuming the factory built it that way) stories never die. IN which case, as the car was known to be "special", any factory documentation/window sticker should have been saved.
I've noticed on some national car auction website listings that some of the supplied information is incorrect. When inquired about, the auction company replied that they only list by what the seller provides them.
CBODY67
At this point in time, WE know better. But those "bought it that way, from the dealer" (presuming the factory built it that way) stories never die. IN which case, as the car was known to be "special", any factory documentation/window sticker should have been saved.
I've noticed on some national car auction website listings that some of the supplied information is incorrect. When inquired about, the auction company replied that they only list by what the seller provides them.
CBODY67
Hindsight says you are correct, but that's not how things were.
My convertible is a example. I stopped by the dealer on Sept 25, 1969 when they pulled sheets off the new cars to reveal the fancy new 1970 models. I was driving a 1968 Fury 318 convertible at the time and I was really interested in the "same" car with a bigger engine. Well one look at the Fury GT in the show room had me in the little sales booth trying to convince the salesman to write up a GT convertible with a 6-pack. No could do, but I could get a loaded Fury III with a 440 which the sales dude assured me I could update to 6-pack and swap out the grill for a Sport Fury type. So I bought it and never did get around to any swaps. Life got in the way.
Who knew that I was a member of a small group of nutcases who special ordered Fury convertibles with big 440 gas guzzlers just when fuel prices went crazy. So no paperwork survived, except the order/invoice. Because film camera pictures were really expensive to process, no more than 5 or 6 pictures exist showing the Fury in the back ground.
Move forward 25 years to when I decided to restore the car. I discovered it was a C-body and nobody had parts plus the resale market value was crap I discovered they only made 1952 convertibles and as far as I could discover one with a 440 was ultra rare. After over 20 years of active searching I've found 7.
My point is I never realized what I had and didn't save any documentation. Well not totally true, I grabbed a showroom brochure and shelled out $10 at the parts counter for a service manual. Looking back, the 440 has been the car's saving grace simply because I loved driving the car. If it had been a 318 or 383 it would have been crushed 25 years ago!
polara71
Old Man with a Hat
Hindsight says you are correct, but that's not how things were.
My convertible is a example. I stopped by the dealer on Sept 25, 1969 when they pulled sheets off the new cars to reveal the fancy new 1970 models. I was driving a 1968 Fury 318 convertible at the time and I was really interested in the "same" car with a bigger engine. Well one look at the Fury GT in the show room had me in the little sales booth trying to convince the salesman to write up a GT convertible with a 6-pack. No could do, but I could get a loaded Fury III with a 440 which the sales dude assured me I could update to 6-pack and swap out the grill for a Sport Fury type. So I bought it and never did get around to any swaps. Life got in the way.
Who knew that I was a member of a small group of nutcases who special ordered Fury convertibles with big 440 gas guzzlers just when fuel prices went crazy. So no paperwork survived, except the order/invoice. Because film camera pictures were really expensive to process, no more than 5 or 6 pictures exist showing the Fury in the back ground.
Move forward 25 years to when I decided to restore the car. I discovered it was a C-body and nobody had parts plus the resale market value was crap I discovered they only made 1952 convertibles and as far as I could discover one with a 440 was ultra rare. After over 20 years of active searching I've found 7.
My point is I never realized what I had and didn't save any documentation. Well not totally true, I grabbed a showroom brochure and shelled out $10 at the parts counter for a service manual. Looking back, the 440 has been the car's saving grace simply because I loved driving the car. If it had been a 318 or 383 it would have been crushed 25 years ago!
You don't have the order sheet or window sticker ?
Wollfen
Old Man with a Hat
Heat stove is found on the 71 as well, my GT has it. Part number is right for 71 as well.
polara71
Old Man with a Hat
Thank you.... I didn't have it In me.
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