1972 Fury III ... closer to roadworthy.. now for the Transmission

[MBar]

Well Fellas, I was about to pull the carb but decided to tinker a little bit first..wouldn't be cool to do it and not fix the problem... The good news: I adjusted the idle screws and it idles pretty decent now. Still hesitates when I step on it and shuts off sometimes but it ran well enough to warm up... So I drove it onto the street... immediately noticed the tranny was slippin...so I checked the fluid and it looked good. So I let it idle for a bit then put it in Drive and didn't move just let it idle like that and also Reverse, then I took a few delicate passes on the street out front and with each pass the shifting got better. So I took it for a more extended drive very gently and it seems to have gotten much better but still slips a bit. Then I checked the fluid again. This time, I couldn't get the dipstick to go all the way in. I wasn't paying much attention the first time but pretty sure it went all the way in...I turned it around but no change...it seems to stop about 1/2 inch too soon... compensating for that difference, it seemed the fluid had gone down a bit.. I added about 4 or 5 ounces of fluid. Drove around some more... still slips a little....
Question1: Does it make any sense to change the fluid and filter at this point?
Question2: Are there any adjustments that can be made?
I set out to save this more-door and I know the value isn't there if I rebuild the tranny (I have to get safer tires and a battery so it is adding up)...

 

[Xenon]

Value is relative...
Is there a value going to Disney Land?
Is there a value to buying a TV...
Soooo,, get trans serviced or re-done and enjoy the hell outta the car....
It is still something you can do with the family.....

 

[MBar]

Value is relative...
Is there a value going to Disney Land?
Is there a value to buying a TV...
Soooo,, get trans serviced or re-done and enjoy the hell outta the car....
It is still something you can do with the family.....

Yes..I for sure get what you're saying... But I already have a 68 Newport pretty much clean. And I have a pipeline of projects... 69 corvette roadster (just needing assembly under the hood..then paint..) 69 Ford Bronco (been sitting way too long and shows it) ..and some day, my first car a 73 Opel GT... This 72 was an impulse buy because I couldn't turn down the price and I had been lusting for a fuselage..... I guess I am going to drain the fluid and see..I understand it is a messy deal... uuugh

 

[Xenon]

Should you decide to pull pan and drain I would suggest pulling valve body
and disassembling it as there will be a few sopts where gunk has accumulated
and can cause slow or erratic operation..
Use the FSM and pay attention to where the balls go..
It actually IS a simple thing to do....
CLEAN all parts thoroughly....

 

[Davea Lux]

Odds are if it has been slipping for any length of time, you are headed for a rebuild. Go ahead and pull the pan and replace the filter, do a band adjustment. If there is a significant amount of gunk on the bottom of the pan, that is indicative of clutch pack and band wear. Sometimes a band adjustment will be a short term fix for slippage. Most of the time, slippage is caused by worn out clutch packs or and internal leak someplace which means a rebuild.

Dave

 

[70bigblockdodge]

Slipping in gear, or slipping as it shifts. Slipping in gears may fix itself as piston seals swell back up and get flexible again. Slipping from gear to gear, 1-2 can sometimes be helped with band adjustments. Lucas trans in a can has been the only one that I have ever seen make a difference, it's easy and not a million bucks.

 

[MBar]

Should you decide to pull pan and drain I would suggest pulling valve body
and disassembling it as there will be a few sopts where gunk has accumulated
and can cause slow or erratic operation..
Use the FSM and pay attention to where the balls go..
It actually IS a simple thing to do....
CLEAN all parts thoroughly....

I looked at the valve body stuff in the chassis manual... there's a lot of disassembly of components... seems a tad too much for me...do you mean just pull it out and clean without taking it apart?

 

[MBar]

Odds are if it has been slipping for any length of time, you are headed for a rebuild. Go ahead and pull the pan and replace the filter, do a band adjustment. If there is a significant amount of gunk on the bottom of the pan, that is indicative of clutch pack and band wear. Sometimes a band adjustment will be a short term fix for slippage. Most of the time, slippage is caused by worn out clutch packs or and internal leak someplace which means a rebuild.

Dave

You didn't mention the valve body...your thoughts?

 

[MBar]

Slipping in gear, or slipping as it shifts. Slipping in gears may fix itself as piston seals swell back up and get flexible again. Slipping from gear to gear, 1-2 can sometimes be helped with band adjustments. Lucas trans in a can has been the only one that I have ever seen make a difference, it's easy and not a million bucks.

I got the lucas.... at this point I'm gonna drain the fluid...not sure if I should also drain the TC...and swap the filter and try for a band adjustment...then fluid and Lucas and hopefully I'll be cruisin'..

 

[Davea Lux]

You didn't mention the valve body...your thoughts?

The valve body has a fair number of small parts that can be mis-installed. I would leave that much alone if you are not up to speed with valve bodies. Drain and remove the pan and see how much accumulated crap is in there. If there is a lot of black or metallic residue on the bottom of the pan, most likely your transmission is toast. If it is not real dirty, replace the filter and do the band adjustment and go with fresh fluid in both the transmission and torque convertor. While the pan is off, be sure to check that all the valve body bolts are properly torqued. A clogged transmission filter can cause slippage, but usually by the time the filter is clogged with debris, there is damage to the bands or clutch packs. Changing the fluid and the filter and a routine band adjustment might get you by for a while longer. Let us know what you find when the pan is off.

Dave

 

[MBar]

Got the carb rebuilt and engine runs smooth...very happy about that...
So I took it down the block to turn it aound for parking and it out out a bunch of smoke.... Looks like it spit fluid out of the transmission dipstick!! I'm sure this is not a good sign any idea what that is? I won't get to the car till maybe tonight or tomorrow

 

[70bigblockdodge]

From what I have seen from pictures, your dipstick tube is probably rotted. If it blew out the top of dipstick tube your vent could be clogged. Maybe try some air pressure in dipstick tube to blow the vent clear not much pressure.

 

[MBar]

Had a little time to play yesterday...just enough to blow air into the dipstick. Tried to listen for air exiting the vent but couldn't tell. Then I took the car up and down the street a few times and .... No more puking fluid..so far so good as far as that goes .. next step is a fluid and filter change. I did read the manual regarding band adjust and I'm gonna try for that too... In the meantime I've found a "was working fine" 727 out of a superbee that's going to a four speed for 200.00
Also, someone within an hour or so that does rebuilds for 400. Figure if my efforts don't work I'll have to dip into savings because I just don't wanna put this car on hold. I've got a mental block on swapping the tranny... How tough is that to do?

 

[Davea Lux]

Had a little time to play yesterday...just enough to blow air into the dipstick. Tried to listen for air exiting the vent but couldn't tell. Then I took the car up and down the street a few times and .... No more puking fluid..so far so good as far as that goes .. next step is a fluid and filter change. I did read the manual regarding band adjust and I'm gonna try for that too... In the meantime I've found a "was working fine" 727 out of a superbee that's going to a four speed for 200.00
Also, someone within an hour or so that does rebuilds for 400. Figure if my efforts don't work I'll have to dip into savings because I just don't wanna put this car on hold. I've got a mental block on swapping the tranny... How tough is that to do?

You will need to jack the car up sufficiently to get the transmission out from under the car, you really should have a transmission jack also to secure the transmission. Remove the drive line, remove the pan from the transmission and drain the oil (put the pan back on afterwards), also drain the torque convertor, remove the cable for the neutral safety switch, remove the speedo cable and the shift linkage, remove the starter and the cover for the torque convertor. Remove the nuts from the torque convertor that hold the flex plate secure. Remove the transmission cooler lines. Place the transmission jack under the transmission and raise the transmission slightly, unbolt the transmission from the tail shaft mount and remove the short cross member from the frame. Remove the bell housing bolts and the dipstick fill tube from the transmission. The transmission is now free and should be moved straight back to clear the alignment pins and the torque convertor bolts, once free the transmission can be lowered with the jack and rolled free of the car. Installation is the reverse of this process. When installing the new transmission care must be taken to not damage the torque convertor seal by mis-alignment of the unit.

Dave

 

[MBar]

You will need to jack the car up sufficiently to get the transmission out from under the car, you really should have a transmission jack also to secure the transmission. Remove the drive line, remove the pan from the transmission and drain the oil, also drain the torque convertor, remove the cable for the neutral safety switch, remove the speedo cable and the shift linkage, remove the starter and the cover for the torque convertor. Remove the nuts from the torque convertor that hold the flex plate secure. Remove the transmission cooler lines. Place the transmission jack under the transmission and raise the transmission slightly, unbolt the transmission from the tail shaft mount and remove the short cross member from the frame. Remove the bell housing bolts and the dipstick fill tube from the transmission. The transmission is now free and should be moved straight back to clear the alignment pins and the torque convertor bolts, once free the transmission can be lowered with the jack and rolled free of the car. Installation is the reverse of this process. When installing the new transmission care must be taken to not damage the torque convertor seal by mis-alignment of the unit.

Dave

Thanks Dave. What is the value of rebuilding the original transmission versus buying a rebuild? are there significant differences I should be aware of if I swap to a different transmission? Might this be a good time to consider an overdrive newer transmission?

 

[70bigblockdodge]

Trans from a Super Bee is not going to work behind a small block.
On band adjustments. Put car in nuetral, tighten the low reverse band (inside trans) until Driveshaft stops turning by hand in one direction. Then tighten kickdown or second gear band (adjuster on the outside of the case) till driveshaft stops turning in other direction. Loosen each band adjuster till the driveshaft can just turn, then loosen another 3/4 - 1 full turn. Your band adjustments is done.

 

[Davea Lux]

Thanks Dave. What is the value of rebuilding the original transmission versus buying a rebuild? are there significant differences I should be aware of if I swap to a different transmission? Might this be a good time to consider an overdrive newer transmission?

The transmission, if it is the original one, is stamped with the vehicle VIN number on the case. If you are trying to keep your car "Numbers Matching" then you will need to rebuild what you have. The other advantage to rebuilding your current unit is that you know the unit is matched to the application. A quality rebuilt "Coffin" transmission will also be, in theory, matched to the application if you supply all of the correct vehicle information. Most of the time they will get it right, but screw ups can and do happen. Very frustrating to get ready to install a transmission and find that something is not right about it.

Converting to a modern over drive transmission is a major PIA. First off all of those transmissions were initially designed for small block applications. That means you will need an Adapter kit to fit the later transmission to your big block engine if that is what you have. A new rear transmission mount will need to be fabricated. The drive line will also need to be shortened and often the shift linkage will also need some modification. You will also need to find a different ratio speedometer drive gear to get you speedometer to register correctly. When you get this all done you will have a lighter duty transmission that is not really up to the torque of a Mopar big block engine. The later overdrive transmissions were also significantly less reliable than the older 727 regardless of the application.
Many of the later overdrive transmissions are also electronically controlled, so some significant wiring work with an after market control module would need to be installed to use one of those transmissions.

I would not recommend any overdrive conversion unless you plan a lot of highway miles for your car as it is simply not cost effective in the long run.

Dave

 

[70bigblockdodge]

Thought this is small block car?

 

[Davea Lux]

Thought this is small block car?

Do not see where you posted the engine, if yours is a 318 or 360 then you do not have to worry about any adapters. Will still need to do the rest of it. You original transmission will still be more reliable than a later one with overdrive.

Dave

 

[70bigblockdodge]

Do not see where you posted the engine, if yours is a 318 or 360 then you do not have to worry about any adapters. Will still need to do the rest of it. You original transmission will still be more reliable than a later one with overdrive.

Dave

Isn't this the guy who dug the broken bolt out?
If not a small block the super been trans will work.