1973 Newport Alignment Help
- Thread starter badvs3vil
- Start date
ONE other thing to consider in the non-return-to-center issue is the steering gear adjustment. IF it is adjusted too tightly, you'll have to manually (even with power steering) the steering wheel to center after every turn. Too loose, slack on center.
On my '70 DH43, the "slack" is on the input side of the gear, not IN the gear itself. The input side of the gear will move in and out before the inner part of the gear starts to move the wheels side to side. But it still feels the same and the most obvious adjustment location is on the top-side of the gear. So, you might start loosening that adjustment stud about 1/8 turn looser, then lock it back down with the nut, and see if that might help things or cause more issues.
IF somebody earlier had tried to remove any on-center slack by adjusting the upper adjustment, THAT could be the issue. An easy fix with a wrench and such.
Not to be critical, but those alignment results don't look too good to me. Unless the roads you might be driving on are cambered more than normal. BUT it does look better than when they started! Pretty much everything from '65-'73 should have the same or similar alignment settings.
IF you have any wheel spacers and/or a more outboard backspacing on the wheels (like less than 4.00" on the wheels), then the adjustments can become a bit more tedious to get to the specs. In theory, the farther out the wheels are from where the adjustments are, the more precise the adjustments will need to be, due to that greater lever arm (of sorts).
Be sure to ALSO look at the coupler on the gearbox, too, for a possible location of undesired movement that somebody might have sought to get rid of with the steering gear adjustment.
Just some thoughts, observations, and experiences,
CBODY67
On my '70 DH43, the "slack" is on the input side of the gear, not IN the gear itself. The input side of the gear will move in and out before the inner part of the gear starts to move the wheels side to side. But it still feels the same and the most obvious adjustment location is on the top-side of the gear. So, you might start loosening that adjustment stud about 1/8 turn looser, then lock it back down with the nut, and see if that might help things or cause more issues.
IF somebody earlier had tried to remove any on-center slack by adjusting the upper adjustment, THAT could be the issue. An easy fix with a wrench and such.
Not to be critical, but those alignment results don't look too good to me. Unless the roads you might be driving on are cambered more than normal. BUT it does look better than when they started! Pretty much everything from '65-'73 should have the same or similar alignment settings.
IF you have any wheel spacers and/or a more outboard backspacing on the wheels (like less than 4.00" on the wheels), then the adjustments can become a bit more tedious to get to the specs. In theory, the farther out the wheels are from where the adjustments are, the more precise the adjustments will need to be, due to that greater lever arm (of sorts).
Be sure to ALSO look at the coupler on the gearbox, too, for a possible location of undesired movement that somebody might have sought to get rid of with the steering gear adjustment.
Just some thoughts, observations, and experiences,
CBODY67
In one of the old Chrysler MasterTech training books (back in the later '50s or earlier '60s?), it details the steering geometry of the Chrysler front ends. Specifically how the wheels go into different camber modes when turning corners. Due to the fact of how the camber angles will change, the need of "more caster" can be more limited, by observation. GM and Ford independent front suspension cars did not have camber changes of this nature (until the '73 Monte Carlo appeared with its Mercedes-type caster levels and steering damper), by observation, which is another reason Chryslers cornered better, even before torsion bars.
Caster is more about straight-line stability. Think looong forks on a motorcycle, for example. But the other issue with max caster is that it also makes the existing camber changes (when turning the steering wheel off-center) much more obvious. Plus max caster will increase steering effort, which is why the "Manual Steering" alignment specs might even have a slight negative caster setting, but the "Power Steering" alignment specs would usually be near 1 degree positive caster. Back in the days of parallel parking!
When radial tires appeared in the '74-'75 timeframe, the local dealer would not usually order radials as an option, but they were standard equipment on some models. I remember the service manager complaining about having to "throw the front end out of alignment" in order to counter-act the dreaded "radial pull" so the car would drive straight (as expected). After they had already swapped tire positions to get a better pair of tires on the front.
Enjoy!
CBODY67
Caster is more about straight-line stability. Think looong forks on a motorcycle, for example. But the other issue with max caster is that it also makes the existing camber changes (when turning the steering wheel off-center) much more obvious. Plus max caster will increase steering effort, which is why the "Manual Steering" alignment specs might even have a slight negative caster setting, but the "Power Steering" alignment specs would usually be near 1 degree positive caster. Back in the days of parallel parking!
When radial tires appeared in the '74-'75 timeframe, the local dealer would not usually order radials as an option, but they were standard equipment on some models. I remember the service manager complaining about having to "throw the front end out of alignment" in order to counter-act the dreaded "radial pull" so the car would drive straight (as expected). After they had already swapped tire positions to get a better pair of tires on the front.
Enjoy!
CBODY67
badvs3vil
Active Member
Everyone,
I just wanted to say thanks. I didn't know what I would get asking for help as I was a long time lurker and just watched from a far. You all have been very helpful.
I get my new Rag joint today and now everything would have been replaced including the steering gear box this week. I will take it to get an alignment tomorrow from a place that understands old Chryslers better. I will give an update then.
Once again, thank you all.
I just wanted to say thanks. I didn't know what I would get asking for help as I was a long time lurker and just watched from a far. You all have been very helpful.
I get my new Rag joint today and now everything would have been replaced including the steering gear box this week. I will take it to get an alignment tomorrow from a place that understands old Chryslers better. I will give an update then.
Once again, thank you all.
Xenon
Senior Member
Where are you taking it to be done?
badvs3vil
Active Member
Just popping by D Wells here in Gurnee. Do you have any other options?
Firmfeel Mopar Suspension and Steering
Firm Feel is a great company to deal with. Your picture of the upper control arm looks like the caster is as much as the tech could get.
I use the moog offset upper control arm bushings if the car has some positive caster but not enough, but after that I go to Firm Feel and order there upper control arms, the Arms have been designed with 3 degrees of caster before adjustment. Firm Feel have been only doing Chrysler suspensions since the 80s
I am looking for the moog part number, I'll pass it along.
Firm Feel is a great company to deal with. Your picture of the upper control arm looks like the caster is as much as the tech could get.
I use the moog offset upper control arm bushings if the car has some positive caster but not enough, but after that I go to Firm Feel and order there upper control arms, the Arms have been designed with 3 degrees of caster before adjustment. Firm Feel have been only doing Chrysler suspensions since the 80s
I am looking for the moog part number, I'll pass it along.
Moog K7104 offset upper control arm bushings will get you some extra positive caster. Don't use the Moog instruction, use what I have attached.
badvs3vil
Active Member
This is awesome! Thank you! I was looking for after market upper control arms and couldn't find them. I did rebuild mine with new bushings and ball joints, cleaned and painted... But getting those old bushings out SUCKED. I would have just bought these! I also just might if I can get any more caster!
badvs3vil
Active Member
This is awesome as well and a cheaper route to go. Maybe I will see if the garage can get any more out of my current setup, if not, I could get these, they are not hard to change out now that I have already changed the current ones.
Or should I just say screw it and buy these and get them installed before I spend more money on another alignment???
You will get caster, good guys at Firm Feel.
Ask about all your suspension probe ideas with them.
Ask about all your suspension probe ideas with them.
badvs3vil
Active Member
Amazon had these for sale so I picked up 2 pair. I figured why the hell not. Side question... Is there a proper way to get a ball joint unstuck from the knuckle without using the puller which could hurt the rubber seal on it?
yes there is a proper way to undo a ball joint, Mancini Racing Upper Ball Joint Stud Remover
https://www.amazon.ca/GearWrench-39...jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==
While you apply pressure to the ball joint stud give the stud receiver some good hits with hammer, ease of removal is all dependant on condition of parts, rust, bad install, etc...
I use both of those tools with success, never a pickle fork unless really not caring.
Rustyrodknocker
Senior Member
To second what @CBODY67 stated, the steering gear adjustment on the top of the box can be very suspect. I have done this myself to my Toronado. A cheap car lot trick is to tighten them down to tighten up a worn out box. I did this on my Olds to get by. I tightened it until it began to not want to return and then backed it up just a little. It does not fix a worn out box and will make it wear even more.
Point being. If you correct your geometry and the box is worn out and hammered down all the way the car will still not steer correctly.
I would also inquire here for a reputable rebuilder.
I just last week installed the 3rd rebuilt saginaw box in my nephews truck. They were from autozone. First one leaked worse than the 40 year old original but was nice and tight, the second was more worn out than the original and the 3rd we are going to live with but I'm not impressed.
Point being. If you correct your geometry and the box is worn out and hammered down all the way the car will still not steer correctly.
I would also inquire here for a reputable rebuilder.
I just last week installed the 3rd rebuilt saginaw box in my nephews truck. They were from autozone. First one leaked worse than the 40 year old original but was nice and tight, the second was more worn out than the original and the 3rd we are going to live with but I'm not impressed.
For a steering box, the only shop I would buy from would be Firm Feel. They do great work to original steering boxes. Full bearings, machining to correct. Check them out, you won't regret.
C Body Parts
C Body Parts
badvs3vil
Active Member
I already have a new steering box, I installed it this week.
I have had issues with Firm Feel in the past and found Steer & Gear to be more reliable - have you had any issues or experience with Steer & Gear??? I realize companies change over personnel from time to time and thus may have periods of good and bad, but wonder if you have had any issues with Steer & Gear?
badvs3vil
Active Member
So I went with the moog offset control arm bushings in hopes of gaining a bit of caster. Granted right now I have it set to max caster without an alignment, but I can see a difference already!
Keith926
Member
I would doubt that the lack of return to center is due to alignment, I would also doubt the box as the cause unless it felt tight with the pitman arm disconnected, I would suspect lower ball joints possibly damaged from install or manufacturing defect, could take tie rods off and check how the spindle moves, aside from a problem with the box or idler arm in my mind the only problem with lack of return could be the lower ball joint, these cars are pretty good driving as long as the toe is good for the most part, one thing that some alignment techs forget about is checking the ride height on a torsion bar vehicle, if it’s high or low a turn or two can correct the camber easily, whether it was chance or intentional the tech that did your alignment compensated for the thrust angle in his front toe adjustment, I would definitely look for a mechanical fault to explain the lack of return
Similar threads
