'61 Dodge Dart Phoenix w cross-ram

[commando1]

The day he started this thread was the last day he was on here.

Along with the other 77-hundred.

 

[BIGBARNEYCARS]

The day he started this thread was the last day he was on here.

You noticed that too?

 

[SGT FURY]

I believe this is the 61 dodge original poster was talking about. It's still available.

 

[MAXWEDGECHAR]

@SGT FURY Do you know if this car is from the Philadelphia, PA area? A friend's father and uncle owned a Dodge dealer in Philadelphia and he told me that he and a group of salesmen went to the introduction of the Turbine Car in Detroit in a Polara convertible, 383 w/Rams and a 3 speed.

 

[SGT FURY]

(It's not mine) it's still for sale on SF CL. I would look at verification real close with this one. https://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/cto/d/menlo-park-1955-lincoln-capri-1956/7199066369.html

 

[Fury Pursuit]

How do you spell re-body?

 

[Furious]

Lads --
My current '60 SonoRamic Commando-equipped Fury does NOT have the removable fender well panels and I not only have the factory sheet attesting to the fact that it came off the line as such, but it is also identified in Darrell's book as being an
exception to the above rule. However, the '60 I had back in 1960-1964 did have them. Joe Godec
View attachment 395413

The cars were down on paper before they started welding them together. IBM cards. They new what they were building, they didn’t change the cars options or engine half way through assembly.

The cut out fender wells are to allow the body to be dropped over the complete subframe and engine/trans. That’s how they went together. All of them!

The factory did not lean over the fender and install the long ram intakes.

I agree. The engine was complete with intakes, and the body was dropped over top, so the cut outs were necessary to provide clearance for the intakes hanging out in space. My 60 Belvedere long ram car has the cut outs. I have several 60-64 full size Mopars, and most have body color inner aprons, hood hinges and rad supports, because the fenders, hood and all related body panels were assembled before painting. But a few of them have black inner fenders and rad support, unpainted hood hinges, because they were painted in pieces, then assembled. Apparently different factories had different assembly procedures. This applies to 72-73 Dodge trucks too, depending on where they were built.
So, this makes think that long ram equipped cars built with black inner fenders, rad supports would not need inner fenders with cutouts, since they were installed as separate pieces after the subframe-engine unit was installed.
So my theory on long ram equipped cars is body colored inner aprons = cut outs, black painted inner aprons = no cutouts.
Anyone have any photos or info supporting this idea?

 

[dplotkin]

I agree. The engine was complete with intakes, and the body was dropped over top, so the cut outs were necessary to provide clearance for the intakes hanging out in space. My 60 Belvedere long ram car has the cut outs. I have several 60-64 full size Mopars, and most have body color inner aprons, hood hinges and rad supports, because the fenders, hood and all related body panels were assembled before painting. But a few of them have black inner fenders and rad support, unpainted hood hinges, because they were painted in pieces, then assembled. Apparently different factories had different assembly procedures. This applies to 72-73 Dodge trucks too, depending on where they were built.
So, this makes think that long ram equipped cars built with black inner fenders, rad supports would not need inner fenders with cutouts, since they were installed as separate pieces after the subframe-engine unit was installed.
So my theory on long ram equipped cars is body colored inner aprons = cut outs, black painted inner aprons = no cutouts.
Anyone have any photos or info supporting this idea?

Sounds reasonable to me.

Dan

 

[413]

I agree. The engine was complete with intakes, and the body was dropped over top, so the cut outs were necessary to provide clearance for the intakes hanging out in space. My 60 Belvedere long ram car has the cut outs. I have several 60-64 full size Mopars, and most have body color inner aprons, hood hinges and rad supports, because the fenders, hood and all related body panels were assembled before painting. But a few of them have black inner fenders and rad support, unpainted hood hinges, because they were painted in pieces, then assembled. Apparently different factories had different assembly procedures. This applies to 72-73 Dodge trucks too, depending on where they were built.
So, this makes think that long ram equipped cars built with black inner fenders, rad supports would not need inner fenders with cutouts, since they were installed as separate pieces after the subframe-engine unit was installed.
So my theory on long ram equipped cars is body colored inner aprons = cut outs, black painted inner aprons = no cutouts.
Anyone have any photos or info supporting this idea?

Good idea here.

It was the 1960-1964 LA built cars with the black inner fenders.

There were no Chrysler 300’s built in LA. They were from Jefferson MI.

So where were the long ram Dodge and Plymouth’s built? LA is 5 in the VIN 4th digit. Jefferson is 3

 

[Ram Fury]

Good idea here.

It was the 1960-1964 LA built cars with the black inner fenders.

There were no Chrysler 300’s built in LA. They were from Jefferson MI.

So where were the long ram Dodge and Plymouth’s built? LA is 5 in the VIN 4th digit. Jefferson is 3

Lads --
I can't address Dodges or Darts, but the work done by Darrell Davis shows that '60 SonoRamic Commando equipped Plymouths came off the assembly lines of the Lynch Road (Plant No. 1), Los Angeles (No. 5), Newark, Delaware (No. 6), and St. Louis (No.7). My '60 SonoRamic Fury came from St. Louis and as you can see in Attachment 395413 it has the black engine bay and no fender well cutouts. You can also see it has the narrow and deep Golden Commando windshield washer fluid container and hanger rather than the longer and shallower SonoRamic one as well as the ball-and-socket carb linkage in stead of the later slotted type. Inside, its swivel seats are the earlier 1959 types (non-automatic) although these may have been retrofitted. It has always been my understanding that the fenderwell cutouts were there to facilitate sparkplug changes as back in those days, not every work station in a dealer's shop had a lift, so this was done by jacking up the front end, pulling the front wheels, and going through the openings to get to the plugs (I was quoted a price of 5 bucks per plug for labor by the dealer in 1960).
As to the factory knowing what they were building, the '65 Sport Fury with the 426-S/4-speed I special ordered in 1964 was supposed to have oversized wheels and tires to fit its oversized brakes, but it was delivered to me with 8.25X14 wheels and tires rather than the proper 8.55/14 ones. But that's another story.
Joe Godec

 

[Furious]

While the fenderwell panels would indeed help to access sparkplugs etc from the wheel opening, if you look at the shape of them, and imagine the body drop procedure, it looks to me, like they are placed for clearance for the ram tubes with carbs, as the assembled, painted body is lowered over the assembled stub frame.
But the cars with black inner fenders and rad supports were painted apart, then assembled. Different assembly procedure. It would seem logical to me, that long ram equipped cars built in this manner would not need the cut outs. I would guess no black inner fenders had the cut outs.