66 New Yorker 440 - what do you hear?

Cadillacdave

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66 New Yorker with rebuilt 440. Car reportedly has 1500 miles on engine since rebuild and has sat due to other issues with brakes and transmission.

What do you guys hear? Ticking noises - exhaust leak, flat cam, bent pushrod, valve adjustment, low oil or pan run dry due to high volume pump with standard pan?

Engine looks like it runs smooth and gas in it may be 10 years old. But just dorsnt sound quite right. Power steering pump vibrates and I assume that is missing the rubber bushing. Also who rebuilds a motor and puts an old water pump back on? Water pump doesnt look new?
 
Those PS pump brackets wear out at the bottom through bolt and the rubber bishing won't fix that. There are rebuild services for the brackets.
 
 
You realize that the "water pump" is just an insert into the main cast iron housing?
 
I am not very familiar with Chrysler engines. I owned a 67 Plymouth over 30 years ago. A nice car, but that was my limited experience with Chrysler. In any case the housing of the water pump looked old and unpainted, while the rest of the motor looked fresh and painted. My concern was if they cut corners on putting an old water pump back on a freshly rebuilt motor, where else did they cut corners on during the rebuild? I will try to get a video up tomorrow of the motor running.
 
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I am not very familiar with Chrysler engines. I owned a 67 Plymouth over 30 years ago. A nice car, but that was my limited experience with Chrysler. In any case the housing of the water pump looked old and unpainted, while the rest of the motor looked fresh and painted. My concern was if they cut corners on putting an old water pump back on a freshly rebuilt motor, where else dis they cut corners, on the rebuild? I will try to get a video up tomorrow of the motor running.
I understand your concern, but I strongly suspect that if the engine in not making any knocking noises (at this time), you could well have another 30k miles of enjoyment from the engine (all things considered).

The reason I mentioned "30k miles" is that with even the cheapest rings, cheapest bearings, with decent care they should last at least that long before "wear" would start to happen. In the 1980s, when a Chevy 350 short block was advertised at auto supplies for $299.95, you KNEW it was not "top quality stuff" in the motor. BUT it was good enough to last 30K miles and give the used car lot a chance to say "It's got a new engine in it" to their prospective customers. After about 30k miles, that car would be "long gone", hopefully, and NOT coming back to a tote-the-note used car lot.

The OTHER thing is that the engine was probably painted on the engine stand and the water pump housing (with insert) was not on it at that time. It's reasonably easy to remove the pump casting and paint it, if desired. Just drain the radiator first.

CBODY67
 


Here is the link. What do you guys hear? Thank you!


Power steering bracket looks like it might need some attention, the PS belt might be a bit long and it is rubbing the fan pulley. Use a stethoscope to go around the engine to find that squeak. I think the squeak is in the pulleys or brackets. The engine exhaust sounds ok.
 
I'm not very good at sounds, but I'd check for exhaust manifold leak(s) at the head. Tighten (but don't overtighten) the bolts and see if it changes.
 
I'm thinking it is the power steering pump brackets. That power steering belt is far too tight! Which further wears out the hole for the bottom pivot point in the brackets! There is a YT Vid on that pump bracket set-up, design, and adjustment procedure. With that ingenious engineering, NO NEED for the power steering belt to be that tight!!! A GM solid bracket, it would be fine, but NOT for the Chrysler brackets!

On that bracket design, when the pump sees more load, the torque reaction pivots the pump outward to tighten the belt. When load is decreased, less torque, so the brackets "relax" and the power steering belt gets a bit looser. Power steering belts, with that set-up, last forever! No belt squeaks, either. Unlike all of the 1960s GM cars which squeeled their belts during parking procedures, at least once.

On our '66 Newport Town Sedan 383 2bbl, the bracket pivot hole is worn and the pump sits a bit sideways, but the belt that we put on in the later 1960s (1/2" wide) is still there and makes no noise when turning. Looks flaky, but works well!

CBODY67
 
Its not my car and was considering buying it. Owner sent me a video. Of course its difficult to diagnose this by video. Exhaust leak at the head is a possibility, as it doesnt sound bad at the tailpipe and the sound seems more confined to drivers side. Engine seems to run smooth, which is always good and probably not a flat cam.

My other concern was when I asked the owner if anyone looked at or diagnosed the sound, his response was "it is what it is." Not exactly helpful. I asked if a mechanic or the engine builder had ever commented on what the noise was. He explained that he brought the car back to the machine shop a week after the rebuild (which would suggest a problem to me) and the shop was out of business, the owner was going thru a divorce. He said the transmission started leaking after the motor was put back in amd he believed it had something to do with where the motor and transmission are linked together. I dont think that has anything to do with the machine shop. Perhaps during the installation of the motor, something went wrong and caused the transmission leak or maybe more power from tje new motor blew out the transmssion pump seal - that would be my guess.
 
My other concern was the oil pressure seemed high to me at 75psi, as shown in the video. Machine shop likely put a high volume pump in. Sometimes speed shops do that but I dont believe its necessary on a stock rebuild. A high volume pump could pump a stock pan dry unless it was replaced with a deep sump pan. Could have starved a main bearing for oil?
 
Thank you for the help and suggestions so far. I know you guys are real good with the Chrysler motors. Most of my experience is with GM and Ford. But looking to get in the deep end of the pool with a big block Chrysler!
 
Looks like the power steering belt is rubbing on the water pump pulley and the brackets are not complete or mid adjusted.

The problem sounds like it’s outside the engine. It wouldn’t stop me from buying the car as it appears to be clean.
 
One -- The sound is OUTSIDE of the engine internals, as mentioned.
Two -- A High Volume oil pump will NOT increase oil pressure that much. Putting the high pressure spring IN the pump will. Even with a stock pump, the spring can be shimmed a bit to increase oil pressure. No real harm in that, but might take a few more horsepower to run the pump. Generally, not an issue. Reasonably easy to change, if desired, as the oil pump is external to the engine block.
Three -- A flat cam will cause other performance issues than those displayed.
Four -- The trans leak could well be the seal the torque converter slides into, on the front pump. A hard, aged, seal might not like the way it was done. Will require transmission removal to fix. Really not unusual on an older car.

At the present time, the worst thing I see is the transmission leak AND where it is coming from. There are a few likely candidate areas other than what's been mentioned. None hard to fix, just more time and money. Key thing is that the transmission operates normally!

IF you are not comfortable with the seller's information, find another car, period. YOU have to be comfortable with the purchase. There can be NO real advantage to getting into the Chrysler side of the vintage car hobby with a 440-engined car. A Fury III 318 car can be just as good, for example. Or a Newport 383 2bbl, for that matter. There were several Fury III 318 cars at the recent Mecum auctions, for example. Some under-appreciated cars in the C-body realm of things. Might not get the "OOOs" and "Ahhhhs" a 440 might, but still good cars to enjoy driving and being seen in. It was mentioned decades ago, that "simpler" cars usually don't have as many options to cause issues as the cars age. Things like power windows, power seats, power antennas, which higher trim level cars can usually have. BTAIM

From looking at the auction results from the more recent Mecum auctions, it appears that their selling prices are softening and flattening some. Which can be good for the buyers! You can do a free registration at www.mecum.com to get that information and keep up with those numbers. Facebook Marketplace can be a decent place to find cars, BUT many are just "used cars" and the prices tend to be higher than what I consider "normal", in many cases.

In the mean time, please understand that Chryslers of the "Slab" orientation ('65 to '68) are some of the best designed cars on the road, then and now. The bodies are very strong and solid, but rust can still happen over time. The powertrains were at least as good as anything Ford and GM did back then. Those general model years were when ALL of the OEMs had finessed their earlier engineering to be more bullet-proff and long-lived, so it can be a "sweet spot" of sorts for all of them, but the Chrysler products (IF opotioned correctly) were generally the best, from what I saw back then and us having a '66 Newport Town Sedan I took to college and drove after that. We bought it at its 1yr birthday and 7100 miles. With ultimately over 150k miles and very little mechanical work needing to be done (and, its OEM-production ball joints). From day one, it was a cherished member of the family, but not "ocer-maintained" either. It just worked.

ONE observation, it is much easier to find somebody to work on Chrysler products than it is for similar Ford and GM products. KNOWING the engineering and WHY it is better than what others did is the key. There CAN be many similarities, but the "fix" in non-similar areas can flumox some otherwise-good mechanics. Back then, the cars were NOT "generic", as each OEM had their own orientations and goals to hit for what they wanted the cars to be. Like a good GM mechanic is "lost" on any other brand of car. Some good Chrysler products have been scrapped due to these things!

Personally, I prefer the Dodge and Chrysler brands of that era. Plymouths, as good as they can be with nicely-optiioned cars, tended to be a bit less robust in some areas, but still with the general "Chrysler Corp goodness" of design and execution, which made them such good used car values, back then.

In your learning, find Chryslers you can TOUCH, FEEL, Drive, and experience. Even if you might need to drive a bit to do that. "Education" and appreciation are important! You might discover that staying with Ford and GM is where you feel best. You might also discover how much better the Chrysler products could be, too! They ALL feel different (some better, some worse) in many ways. NOTHING generic, especially back then.

Just some thoughts and observations.
Enjoy!
CBODY67
 
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