67 Newport: no juice at the key

[jct]

You will need to chock your wheels and lower the steering column, to pull the instrument cluster out

 

[Scoopy G]

Thanks JCT. i might get to this little project tomorrow, so I'll let you all know how it went. By the way, are there replacement ammeters available?

 

[SA67NEWPORT]

I've been looking for a cool digital volt meter that fits in place of the ammeter for mine. no luck yet at a reasonable price. I will update if I find something

 

[live4theking]

Mine is a 68, but they share a lot in common with 67's. 65's and 66's have a completely different dash.

 

[Scoopy G]

Hello again gents. I got into the dash this morning, and I removed the red and black wires from the back of the ammeter, and bolted them together. I am happy to report that this resulted it...........
*Turn signals and brake lights are restored.
*Back-up lights are restored.
*Trunk light is restored.
*Positive coil wire now reading 12V with key in the ON position.
*Starter cranks when key turned to START position.
*Very warm ballast resistor on left inner fender in front of firewall. I just pulled the wires and jumped them together, with seemingly no difference either way.

NOW HERE'S WHAT I STILL DON'T HAVE...
*Headlights
*Running lights
*courtesy lights
*Emergency flasher
*Blower

All fuses are good. I jumped the headlights to the battery, all lamps test OK.

 

[live4theking]

I don't mean to second guess you, but didn't you check the fuses with a meter.

 

[cbarge]

Wish I saw this thread earlier...
All this ripping and tearing could easily been avoided with a simple install of one wire..
Run a wire from the battery stud back of alternator to the starter relay.use a fusible link or inline fuse.
Done.
This feeds the discharge side of the ammeter gauge (or switched power side) and powers up everything else on the hot side.
It also removes half of the amperage/resistance away from the gauge.

Connecting the wires together behind the ammeter gauge works but not a good idea.
That is a nuclear meltdown waiting to happen.
So,someone bypassed the bulkhead connector ..that is a good thing.
But it should feed all the splices on the hot side which is not what it is doing.

So even if the ammeter is fried, run one more wire and reconnect the ammeter properly.
From the starter relay with a fusible link run a wire from there straight to the positive side of the ammeter gauge.
Everything will work from there even though the fried ammeter is just along for the ride.
Hope this helps.
PM me with any questions.
P.S. I have spare 67 68 Chrysler ammeter gauges if you want one.

 

[Scoopy G]

Well no I did not check the fuses with a meter. But, the fuses I saw (just about 6 or so fuses) were not related to any of the lights that don't function. I'll double-check those fuses to see what they actually fuse. Indeed the contacts on the fuse block did look a bit rusty.
I noticed that there was a fuse for "Radio", "Cigar Lighter", and "Heater". Is the "Heater" fuse for the blower fan?

 

[cbarge]

Yes the heater is the fuse for the blower motor or fan.

There are no fuses for the headlights. the headlight switch is fed by the battery and has a built in circuit breaker.

Run the wires like I suggested,take 2 aspirin and call me in the morning..

 

[SA67NEWPORT]

Hello,
I have to respectfully disagree with cbarge on this one. What you did is absolutely the correct thing because if your car has the same problem as my 67 and you didn't look at the ammeter, eventually you would be doing the job again when the ammeter totally failed and shorted the connection post to the metal dash board frame. note the pics above showing the melted ammeter connection. I have 2 suggestions for you. Check the big black wire from the alternator step by step through the bulkhead connector in the same way you did the red one from the battery. If its good there follow it through and under the dash until it gets to the ammeter. along that wire all the accessories connect like the headlights, fan, power windows and seats etc.
On the ballast resistor if you are using an OE style coil, you should not have 12v on it. When the key is in the on position you should have less than 12v on the coil and the ballast resistor will get very warm if you happen to have the key on and the points are closed. This is normal and why the ballast resistor is made of ceramic material and mounted to metal so the heat can dissipate. There is only battery voltage on the coii while the starter is cranking since during cranking it is likely the battery voltage is below 12v. This is why there is 2 wires on the distributer side of the ballast resistor.
Incredibly coincidence that I just did this same exercise on my 67 in the past week. In my case the fuse box is bad. Even though the fuses are good, the clips are rusted enough that no current will pass.
Hope this helps.

Steve

 

[cbarge]

Hello,
I have to respectfully disagree with cbarge on this one. What you did is absolutely the correct thing because if your car has the same problem as my 67 and you didn't look at the ammeter, eventually you would be doing the job again when the ammeter totally failed and shorted the connection post to the metal dash board frame. note the pics above showing the melted ammeter connection. I have 2 suggestions for you. Check the big black wire from the alternator step by step through the bulkhead connector in the same way you did the red one from the battery. If its good there follow it through and under the dash until it gets to the ammeter. along that wire all the accessories connect like the headlights, fan, power windows and seats etc.
On the ballast resistor if you are using an OE style coil, you should not have 12v on it. When the key is in the on position you should have less than 12v on the coil and the ballast resistor will get very warm if you happen to have the key on and the points are closed. This is normal and why the ballast resistor is made of ceramic material and mounted to metal so the heat can dissipate. There is only battery voltage on the coii while the starter is cranking since during cranking it is likely the battery voltage is below 12v. This is why there is 2 wires on the distributer side of the ballast resistor.
Incredibly coincidence that I just did this same exercise on my 67 in the past week. In my case the fuse box is bad. Even though the fuses are good, the clips are rusted enough that no current will pass.
Hope this helps.

Steve

That's Ok. I was speaking from personal experience on many Mopars I rewired including both 68 Chryslers.
One example a friend was daily driving a 68 Imperial.He called when he had no juice at the key and no lights no nuthin.
To the rescue jumped the wire from alternator to starter relay. Everyrhing came back to life .
He drove the car like that and sold the car like that.
Big problem....simple fix when ammeter takes a dump.
Cheers

 

[SA67NEWPORT]

CBARGE,
I agree that your method is absolutely a valid rescue fix, just not a permanent repair in my opinion, especially after seeing the melted ammeter in my car and how little was left of the plastic shoulder that insulates the stud from the metal instrument panel. I too worked on many of these cars back in the day both as a AAA road service person and as a certified ASE Master tech in the 80s and early 90s

steve

 

[Scoopy G]

Thanks Steve and cbarge. My main issue was that there was no juice at the key...and thus when the key was in the ON position, no juice was getting to the coil, and, no juice was getting to the solenoid when the key was in the START position. SO, no cranking and no coil, and that equals a totally dead car.
Steve's fix instantly restored juice to the key, and now the coil gets juice and the starter cranks again, and lots of other stuff came back as well. I was not sure how a wire from the alternator (which is just sitting there, not spinning) to the starter relay was gonna send juice to the key...maybe a back-feed?
Anyhow, my next move will be to take loose all the connections at the starter relay and clean everything thoroughly. This probably should have been the first thing I did, eh? Perhaps that will restore the headlights and courtesly lights.

 

[cbarge]

The black wire on the back of alternator is live all the time . it traces back to the ignition switch and splices back to the discharge side of ammeter gauge.
The extra wire that i use close the "loop" between the two red and black wires of ammeter gauge circuits . Which are the main wires of the entire electrical system
Not a back feed.
Years ago Mr.Ehrenberg of Mopar Action fame did an article on this loop. That is where I got it from.

It is ok if you dont understand.
I tried to keep it simple.
Just sharing what i know works.
As for the lights check main battery feed going to headlight switch.
Do coninuity test with multimeter on the headlight switch. They tend to burn out and i may have a working spare.
I'm out.

 

[Scoopy G]

Thanks again cbarge. I certainly intend no umbrage with my posts. SO, with my ammeter wires now married together, can I also employ your fix?

 

[cbarge]

Sure.

 

[Joseph James]

Hello,
Another thing to check is the AMMETER. The Ammeter is in series with the battery feed to most of the car with the possible exception of the power windows. This will cause nothing in the car to work if it is bad and is a very common problem with 60's Chryslers. On my 67, there is a red and black wire connected to the ammeter. Both wires should have 12 volts to ground on them with the key off. I'm guessing only your red wire will. If I am right, the fix is to disconnect the battery, then disconnect both the red and black wires from the ammeter and connect them together with a bolt and nut (10-32 is best size) and a good tape job with electrical tape. Make 100% sure this splice cannot touch ground in any way when you are done. Once you do this the ammeter will no longer work, but the car will, so you might want to get a new volt meter to install in the car to monitor the charging system. I just this week fixed this problem in my car.

I personally wouldn’t trust electrical tape jostling around in a car, especially anything less than Scotch 33+. Cheap tape gets dry and brittle, especially cooking between ambient temperature and heat created by the electrical connection. Polaris lugs are 1000% better. I use them in my work and ditched the old split bolt and tape method.

 

[Jacob D Coates]

If you switch out the points for a pertronix and matching coil you don't need the ballast resistors. The flamethrower 3 and matching coil are designed to operate at full 12v. I strongly advise doing the ammeter bypass. It really isn't that hard. PS I wired my alternator to the battery during the bypass with 8 gauge wire.
The link below is great resource for doing it. PS you don't have to drop the column to remove the instrument panel, just takes some fanagling.

Catalog

 

[jct]

I tried doing that and still couldn't get my instrument cluster out without dropping the steering column, it you could do a video would love to see it being done

 

[Scoopy G]

Wow, thanks Jacob for the link to that article, it was a good read and very clear. I put the pertronix and coil on my Newport, and did the ammeter bypass, and almost everything has been restored, with the exception of the headlights and courtesy lights.
I see you are in Pataskala. I'm a Granville boy who has lived in Columbus since '77, and now in Tampa since '15. Currently I'm back up in Columbus for the summer, where I found the Newport.