Thank you. Do they show up on the build sheet?
70 Dodge C body research help please
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Thank you. Do they show up on the build sheet?
Not sure on the build sheet, but it might. In the absence of a build sheet and since it was a standard feature, without a stripe delete indication at least on the body code plate, I would assume it had the stripes on them from the factory. And body code plate thoroughness varies a lot in terms of what plant made the car and what also shows up on the body code plate.
Well, I learned a couple of things this evening, from reading Dodge's 1970 Dealer Ordering information brochure / booklet (scan courtesy Hammtrack Registry).
1. the correct spelling is "moulding", not "molding". Sorry for mis-spelling the word this whole time;
2. the belt moulding runs at the top of the body (as shown above by @dh23t);
3. the body-side moulding is what I have on my Polara; the 1970 Monaco does not have such a moulding;
4. instead of a body-side moulding, a body-side pinstripe was offered from the factory on Monacos, as Steve (@saforwardlook) just mentioned; it was an extra-cost item with recommended combos; EB3 and EB7 buyers, for example, were steered to bright blue.
In other words, thanks to everyone who's been chiming in for the past 2 days, we have fleshed out with pictures some info that may be useful to folks restoring cars.
PS: Does anybody have a photo of blue pin stripes on a blue Monaco?
1. the correct spelling is "moulding", not "molding". Sorry for mis-spelling the word this whole time;
2. the belt moulding runs at the top of the body (as shown above by @dh23t);
3. the body-side moulding is what I have on my Polara; the 1970 Monaco does not have such a moulding;
4. instead of a body-side moulding, a body-side pinstripe was offered from the factory on Monacos, as Steve (@saforwardlook) just mentioned; it was an extra-cost item with recommended combos; EB3 and EB7 buyers, for example, were steered to bright blue.
In other words, thanks to everyone who's been chiming in for the past 2 days, we have fleshed out with pictures some info that may be useful to folks restoring cars.
PS: Does anybody have a photo of blue pin stripes on a blue Monaco?
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Usually, unless a known pinstriper put some on the car, a dealer-installed pinstripe would have been tape. There were many local vendors who would roam the dealers' lots to perform this function. Then the dealer used that as both a "cash cow" and bargaining point in negotiating the sale. For example, an area Honda dealer had a lot full of dealer-installed pinstripes on their stock units. The double-stripes had an add-on sticker price of $200.00. The triple-stripe cars had an add-on price of more than that. I thought that was exorbitant, considering we were paying about $45.00 for a common double-stripe stripe on our stock Chevys. I asked a friend who was selling Porsches at that time if they really got that price for the pinstripes they did at their dealership. He said that discounting the pinstripes was one of the first things that happened when the dealing needed a little something extra. Not unlike other dealers did with throwing-in a set of factory floor mats for a car deal to help get it done.
The stripes on my '70 DH43 were painted on with a roller. There are some places where it was thicker than others. Not quite as consistently neat as the Ford factory stripes of that era. Now that the car has aged and such, those heavy spots are very easy to see.
In more recent times, some local vendors are doing painted-on pinstripes, but they use a tape and then remove the die-cut stripe areas to put on the paint. Usually with a small logo emblem on the front fender, in a blank section of the stripe used just for that purpose. "Painted" pin stripes, but not like they were done in the later '60s and later. Remember the old Bugler stripe applicators?
The noted logos on the sail panels of the coupes are also on my '70 DH43, adjacent to the "Brougham" plate. Same tail light lenses on my 'DH43, too. A "Dodge Crest", as far as I know.
For a factory "500" emblem, the mentioned "angle" on the back side mounting, so that the outer surface of the "500" would be vertical, would be normal for an emblem mounted on a non-flat surface. The surface below the "Monaco" on the deck lid does not match that contour (of the side of the front fender). It's basically flat, with a very, very slight concave shape. The "Monaco" plate is flat on its backside and it fits perfectly. So if the "500" that is seen on the decklid is the same as was used on the side of the front fenders, THAT would explain why it didn't look very good there.
A more extreme case of the mounting surface of a fender emblem being "non-flat" would be the '70 Monte Carlo SS454. The emblem is very thin at the top, but very thick at the bottom. Only place it would fit and look right is in the inset of the rocker panel molding it was designed to fit into. Be that as it may.
In TX, about the only time we knew about Canadian-market cars was seeing them in pictures. Dodges that looked like "different" Plymouths, for example. Or Pontiacs that were customized Chevrolets. And some Fords that were much more different than what was sold in the USA, some of which looked pretty neat. Additionally, GM has a complete different part number for the same part sold in Canada, which has a USA part number "south of the border".
Thanks for your time and contributions to this thread,
CBODY67
The stripes on my '70 DH43 were painted on with a roller. There are some places where it was thicker than others. Not quite as consistently neat as the Ford factory stripes of that era. Now that the car has aged and such, those heavy spots are very easy to see.
In more recent times, some local vendors are doing painted-on pinstripes, but they use a tape and then remove the die-cut stripe areas to put on the paint. Usually with a small logo emblem on the front fender, in a blank section of the stripe used just for that purpose. "Painted" pin stripes, but not like they were done in the later '60s and later. Remember the old Bugler stripe applicators?
The noted logos on the sail panels of the coupes are also on my '70 DH43, adjacent to the "Brougham" plate. Same tail light lenses on my 'DH43, too. A "Dodge Crest", as far as I know.
For a factory "500" emblem, the mentioned "angle" on the back side mounting, so that the outer surface of the "500" would be vertical, would be normal for an emblem mounted on a non-flat surface. The surface below the "Monaco" on the deck lid does not match that contour (of the side of the front fender). It's basically flat, with a very, very slight concave shape. The "Monaco" plate is flat on its backside and it fits perfectly. So if the "500" that is seen on the decklid is the same as was used on the side of the front fenders, THAT would explain why it didn't look very good there.
A more extreme case of the mounting surface of a fender emblem being "non-flat" would be the '70 Monte Carlo SS454. The emblem is very thin at the top, but very thick at the bottom. Only place it would fit and look right is in the inset of the rocker panel molding it was designed to fit into. Be that as it may.
In TX, about the only time we knew about Canadian-market cars was seeing them in pictures. Dodges that looked like "different" Plymouths, for example. Or Pontiacs that were customized Chevrolets. And some Fords that were much more different than what was sold in the USA, some of which looked pretty neat. Additionally, GM has a complete different part number for the same part sold in Canada, which has a USA part number "south of the border".
Thanks for your time and contributions to this thread,
CBODY67
Bill Watson
Active Member
The dropping of the "u" (colour to color, moulding to molding), rearranging "re" (centre to center, metre to meter) dates back to the 18th century and had a strong influence by Daniel Webster and his dictionary. One story making the rounds has a publisher of one of the Chicago papers who thought it would be a good idea as the you would use fewer letters in the articles and thus fewer lines of type. And with fewer lines of type you would have more lines for advertising. At least, so goes the story.
Needless to say, when you see someone using colour, neighbour, centre, etc. you know you are generally dealing with someone who lives outside the U.S.
There is a Centre Street in New York City, with the street and its spelling dating back to the 1820's.
As for "moulding", it was still published in the American edition of the parts book as "moulding" in the 1980 edition. "Mold" is generally used for the stuff that grows in damp places in your garage and car.
Needless to say, when you see someone using colour, neighbour, centre, etc. you know you are generally dealing with someone who lives outside the U.S.
There is a Centre Street in New York City, with the street and its spelling dating back to the 1820's.
As for "moulding", it was still published in the American edition of the parts book as "moulding" in the 1980 edition. "Mold" is generally used for the stuff that grows in damp places in your garage and car.
Fratzog
Old Man with a Hat
I'm sadly old enough to remember getting some actual grammar and spelling instruction in grade school. One thing I remember clearly is our teacher explaining the difference between English and American spelling of certain words. Attached is a nice description of the use of mould vs mold.
Mold vs. Mould: Mold Meaning & Definition | – Grammarist
Mold vs. Mould: Mold Meaning & Definition | – Grammarist
I just know that when we got the first computerized parts books in the earlier 1980s, that you could abbreviate the word (molding) with the first four letters, but "mldg" (the accepted abbreviation) just didn't work.
CBODY67
CBODY67
In a distraction of sorts, I went into Google and found some more pictures of the black car. Then further searches found me the Canadian '70 Catalog. MORE differences in the USA and Canadian Monacos were indicated.
On the black car . . . when looking at that side view today, my initial thoughts were that it has to be a bolder pinstripe. If it was a molding, there most probably would be mis-alignments at each body joint/seam. PLUS a similar gap in the molding as would be for the lower body molding. A rear 3/4 shot shows no gap at the rear quarter panel extentioin (where the back-up lights are). So, I'd highly suspect it's a bolt pinstripe. The stripes on my '70 DH43 have the upper stripe a bit thicker than the lower stripe. The stripes on my car are of the same length as on the black car.
The Canadian brochure I found at the Fuselage.DE site has some interesting vehicle images for "Monaco 500". ONE is that the noted pinstripes start at the front fender sheet metal, rather than on the front fender extension (as my car and the black car stripes do). SECOND, the fender badges are "Monaco 500" rather than just "500". THAT "500" appears to be unique from the Coronet 500 "500" emblem. In the inset shot of the rear end of the Monaco 500, it indicates a non-pinstripe car with Polara-style body side moldings. No "500" on the deck lid.
In trying to look in my downloaded '70 parts book, as confirmation of several things, not very productive. Unless the emblem is listed in the illustrations, it's not in the catalog listing. Therefore, knowing or finding the group for the fender emblems will not yield a complete listing of fender emblems, rather than just the ones not shown in the illustrations, if they existed. So, with no particular USA Monaco + 500 option illustrated, no part number for the "500" emblems on the bucket seat cars. Similar with deck lid emblems, too. (RATS!!).
One other interesting thing in the Fuselage.DE Monaco 500 brochure. The Monaco 500 4-dr sedan seemed to use the hardtop DH43 roof, rather than a normal USA DH41 roof.
Enjoy!
CBODY67
On the black car . . . when looking at that side view today, my initial thoughts were that it has to be a bolder pinstripe. If it was a molding, there most probably would be mis-alignments at each body joint/seam. PLUS a similar gap in the molding as would be for the lower body molding. A rear 3/4 shot shows no gap at the rear quarter panel extentioin (where the back-up lights are). So, I'd highly suspect it's a bolt pinstripe. The stripes on my '70 DH43 have the upper stripe a bit thicker than the lower stripe. The stripes on my car are of the same length as on the black car.
The Canadian brochure I found at the Fuselage.DE site has some interesting vehicle images for "Monaco 500". ONE is that the noted pinstripes start at the front fender sheet metal, rather than on the front fender extension (as my car and the black car stripes do). SECOND, the fender badges are "Monaco 500" rather than just "500". THAT "500" appears to be unique from the Coronet 500 "500" emblem. In the inset shot of the rear end of the Monaco 500, it indicates a non-pinstripe car with Polara-style body side moldings. No "500" on the deck lid.
In trying to look in my downloaded '70 parts book, as confirmation of several things, not very productive. Unless the emblem is listed in the illustrations, it's not in the catalog listing. Therefore, knowing or finding the group for the fender emblems will not yield a complete listing of fender emblems, rather than just the ones not shown in the illustrations, if they existed. So, with no particular USA Monaco + 500 option illustrated, no part number for the "500" emblems on the bucket seat cars. Similar with deck lid emblems, too. (RATS!!).
One other interesting thing in the Fuselage.DE Monaco 500 brochure. The Monaco 500 4-dr sedan seemed to use the hardtop DH43 roof, rather than a normal USA DH41 roof.
Enjoy!
CBODY67
Bill Watson
Active Member
The "original" illustrations for the Dodge Monaco are in the US Dodge Monaco brochure, including the DH43 hardtop roof line on the DH41 sedan. That Monaco 500 series, by the way, was DP and not DH.
"In the inset shot of the rear end of the Monaco 500, it indicates a non-pinstripe car with Polara-style body side moldings. No "500" on the deck lid. " - That is actually an illustration of a Canadian Dodge Monaco DH model, not Monaco 500 DP, although there is no description attached to the illustration.
The Canadian Monaco DH models used Polara Custom side trim with Monaco grille, nameplates and taillamps. The Canadian Monaco 500 DP used the U.S. Monaco DH side trim with a stripe down the side just below the belt line. Except for the Canadian Monaco DH wagon which used the US Monaco DH wagon side trimm including woodgrain.
"In the inset shot of the rear end of the Monaco 500, it indicates a non-pinstripe car with Polara-style body side moldings. No "500" on the deck lid. " - That is actually an illustration of a Canadian Dodge Monaco DH model, not Monaco 500 DP, although there is no description attached to the illustration.
The Canadian Monaco DH models used Polara Custom side trim with Monaco grille, nameplates and taillamps. The Canadian Monaco 500 DP used the U.S. Monaco DH side trim with a stripe down the side just below the belt line. Except for the Canadian Monaco DH wagon which used the US Monaco DH wagon side trimm including woodgrain.
My70monaco
Member
Revisiting this thread amid the start of a separate thread on the A74 code, I will update the info on N-code 1970 Polara convertibles to note that a sixth car has been found (I bought Snow White two years ago). The build date is Feb. 28, 1970.
Quick question: does your N-code 1970 Polara still have its original radiator? If so, could you share the part number and (ideally) photos? My first guess would be 2998 967 but two other guesses would be 2998975 or 2998970 as per the old MyMopar info that I saved below (P/N 2998968 has a trans cooler for police service and so is out of the running):
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