A Premium Car Worthy of When America Was Truly Great - And Now Available

new testament authors
that's the problem i have with gospels. whether canonical or gnostic, and the Bible in general. these works were all created by people and subject to human fallability. no one knows how the image came to be on the Shroud. i like to think of it as a kind of a first century "selfie" taken by The Man himself. would have been nice if He had included a caption but that's where Faith comes in. and hey, peace be with you also.
 
Ano?

Those two are one in the same pretty much or do I misunderstand you?

Ok, then I'm glad I asked for clarification. My understanding after reading much coverage is there were essentially so many divergent groups in attendance that it would be impossible to catagorize them... Race-purity groups opposing capitalism, plain ol' communists, etc. All of them with histories of violence.

There are photos of the Challenger being attacked by the mob before striking anything/one. So what's that about? Wouldn't be the first person dragged out of a car and beaten. Understand, I'm not condoning his action but it hardly occurred in a peaceful vacuum. There was a red minivan and the white Toyota that the Challenger ultimately rear-ended... those cars were surrounded by mobs, what was that about? Who were those people?

Finally... how much are we all being set up? There are a lot of very powerful and wealthy people having their applecarts overturned, just with the trade deals alone.

It is also unclear who posted the Craigslist ad. The chief executive officer of Crowds on Demand refused to comment on whether his company posted it, for what purpose, or whether they were later responsible for having it temporarily removed. In the absence of a bilateral denial of the crowd hire company’s involvement, we cannot definitively say that Crowds on Demand were not involved in anti-white supremacist demonstrations in Charlotte, North Carolina, or elsewhere, during the weekend of 12 and 13 August 2017.

(Good luck trying to find that image now, but it's out there.)
 
i've always considered myself more the anarchist type, just with a strong faith in God and respect for elders and others in general. maybe i should have added huac, mccarthyism, red channels, george wallace, the development of thermonukes, birchers, jim crow. is that what you were looking for pagan ceasar?
Typical. Attaching labels and personal insults is all the "faithful" have to argue with.
 
I see you corrected this after I read it earlier and was going to ignore but it bothered me too much. His little rant on Tuesday tried to portray what happened as a confrontation between the right and the left with him on the right. Of course, in reality in which he doesn't reside, it was a confrontation between a white supremacists and neo-nazis who believe in darkness and not American or her Constitution. They were opposed by those who believe the opposite. This wasn't the gray situation he was painting it but a truly black and white situation.

I happen to take extremely great offense with those people. My wife is an immigrant and not white, my son a mutt, and I am educated and outspoken. None of those are traits those groups like among others. As some of their web sites mention those are the people they want to see hanging from light posts as far as the eye can see. We fought against Nazis in WWII so to rid the world of them. A good cause However, I have always maintained that those groups could march peacefully as guaranteed by the Constitution. They had that right but they came armed which was their intention all along. They came with the Swastika which if you waved in front of my face, and being a direct threat against my life, you are going down. Now they plan rallies in Berkeley, San Francisco as prayer rallies this weekend and then another in Mt. View to protest Google. Prayer rally my *** as all know exactly why they picked those locations among others in the country.

I have found two ironies in all this. Trump once proclaimed he was going to be the great unifier for the country. It seems likely he is going in the opposite direction and will probably double down as is his trait. Historically we are looking at the worst President we have ever had which gives room to Harding, Grant and a few others. Second, God being involved with this subject. While having gone to Catholic school from K-12 I do not believe one bit of what they tried to teach me. Didn't make friends with that priest in 5th grade when I asked him for definite proof of a God. Nonetheless, others are free to believe and I understand the gist of what they believe especially after 13 years of Catholic school. Knowing what God is supposed to stand for I sure don't see any of God hanging around right now as it seems more towards Satan's side of the street given the hate recently exposed.

With that I bow out as I did in another forum where I took to task a poster who tried to justify the killing of that 32 year old woman claiming she was killed in the commission of a crime and therefore justified.

Since you are quoting my post with your response, I thought I would try to be brief (I see I totally failed) and expand a little on my thoughts. It seems Trump's Sunday scripted statement seemed to be very different than his "on the fly" responses to questions at his Tuesday news conference. Unfortunate in my view which side he ended up on as his real feelings.

I am glad I didn't grow up in a Catholic church environment, as ritual and wrote recitation of verses isn't always accompanied by classes of discussion of meaning and purpose. I find the services a bit tedious but not all of them*. But at least the Bible is being put out there. In my case, due to a difficult situation in my life that I never expected, I rejected most input from pastors and others and launched into really trying to understand the Bible much on my own without a lot of outside input (I did have a commentary that I referenced sometimes). I spent 2 1/2 years very much wanting to understand the Bible thoroughly, and I also had a friend with whom I would go back and forth with during lunch breaks at work to try to understand and make sense of many of the passages, as we were both grappling with Christianity at the same time and neither of us desperately wanted to be fooled or become some kind of "chump". After finally getting a good grasp on what it was saying, I concluded that no man could have written this book and that its counsel was worth examining in real life as I have grown older. Bottom line, it seems the Bible is the only religious book that claims to have been authored by God (through the Holy Spirit), and that was compelling to me to begin with. I have also concluded that the God that created this universe, including us, is capable of getting a book into print that accurately reflects His will for our lives, and that if he loves us, then it is worth putting his counsel to the test. All I can say is that I am amazed that his counsel as expressed in the Bible works long term, every time in my experience. Putting his word to the test is what compels me to strongly believe it is all real and true. To answer your question, "where is God now", I would only say that he often seems to let us go our own way and lean unto our own understanding to solve our problems, neglecting His counsel, and let us see what the outcome yields. I think that is going on now.

Like you I infer, I am a "college puke". I went to UCLA, Berkeley, and Univ of Mich, and ended up with a Masters Degree in Engineering. I think the greatest outcome of value of all those 7 years was to be a person that thinks like a systems engineer - i.e. kind of looking at the "big picture" in our current affairs in this country and trying to put all the pieces together to gain understanding as to how we got ourselves into the messes we are in at present and where the critical failure lies. I believe the discrimination and hatred today are a result of our capitalism getting out of hand and benefitting only a few at the top, where the middle class isn't being adequately rewarded for its working harder than ever and getting ever deeper in debt, and the very poor being basically desperate with little to nothing to give them hope or even put food on the table. This tends to put people at odds with each other and cast blame for our poor predicament and look for scapegoats to blame and hate. Unfortunately, that ends up with certain races blaming others for all the welfare costs as our big problem and the people coming over the border that take our jobs and so on. But these costs are not what are the biggest pieces of our spending or cause of our problems. Our endless wars like in the middle east benefit the military industrial complex that Eisenhower warned against, and the oil companies and businesses that serve the military. These wars cost us trillions of $$, but we keep them going to ensure our continued supply of oil and other industrial gains. Then we have stock markets where individuals with some discretionary income can invest in businesses and expect ever increasing dividends from their investments. So CEOs of companies are ever worried that the stockholders are well and increasingly rewarded as thier primary goal if they want to keep their jobs and their stunning salaries (look at the firing of Mark Fields at Ford recently, even though he was doing a stellar job in my opinion of making them world class, but the profits during his watch where investment in electric vehicles and self driving cars really dramatically decreased profits compared to his predecessor, Alan Mullaly, so he was fired). Thus CEOs increasingly are looking for cost reductions to boost profits and end up shipping jobs overseas increasingly where labor is cheap, rather than invest in a way that benefits our country in the long term or in many cases their own company long term. So we get a well-compensated upper middle class and rich who really didn't do any physical or other kind of work other than make wise investments in the stock market, and then also benefit at tax time with income tax breaks that allow them to avoid paying much in the way of taxes on their rewards (our politicians are in the upper middle class too, so why not give themselves more gravy for all their "hard work")? So we end up with a desperate middle class especially in the midwest and south who just may not know why they are in their predicaments, but the do know they want change, and demand it at election time. So we now have Trump. Unfortunately I see little to nothing in his plans that will improve this situation, so I do expect increasing strife in our country until we might even tear ourselves apart and end up at odds with the rest of the world. I do not believe Trump's principles are guided by the counsel of God, so I am not expecting a good outcome from his term in office. Unfortunately our godless congress in total doesn't offer much hope. It is all about money, is my conclusion, and money never satisfies, no matter how much you have. And the wealthy just keep wanting more for themselves in order to gain their ultimate goal, that will continue to elude them. That is why I say that until we decide to make the Lord the lord of our lives, we will continue to go downhill and suffer for it until our self pride is broken. The Bible also counsels that "seeking riches is the root of all kinds of evil" and also that "it will be easier for a camel to thread the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven". There is a reason for these grave warnings.

Sorry it took so long to get this all out, but that is where I am at (if anyone even bothered to get through all this).

* some priests are really gifted!

 
Last edited:
Since you are quoting my post with your response, I thought I would try to be brief (I see I totally failed) and expand a little on my thoughts. It seems Trump's Sunday scripted statement seemed to be very different than his "on the fly" responses to questions at his Tuesday news conference. Unfortunate in my view which side he ended up on as his real feelings.

I am glad I didn't grow up in a Catholic church environment, as ritual and wrote recitation of verses isn't always accompanied by classes of discussion of meaning and purpose. I find the services a bit tedious but not all of them*. But at least the Bible is being put out there. In my case, due to a difficult situation in my life that I never expected, I rejected most input from pastors and others and launched into really trying to understand the Bible much on my own without a lot of outside input (I did have a commentary that I referenced sometimes). I spent 2 1/2 years very much wanting to understand the Bible thoroughly, and I also had a friend with whom I would go back and forth with during lunch breaks at work to try to understand and make sense of many of the passages, as we were both grappling with Christianity at the same time and neither of us desperately wanted to be fooled or become some kind of "chump". After finally getting a good grasp on what it was saying, I concluded that no man could have written this book and that its counsel was worth examining in real life as I have grown older. Bottom line, it seems the Bible is the only religious book that claims to have been authored by God (through the Holy Spirit), and that was compelling to me to begin with. I have also concluded that the God that created this universe, including us, is capable of getting a book into print that accurately reflects His will for our lives, and that if he loves us, then it is worth putting his counsel to the test. All I can say is that I am amazed that his counsel as expressed in the Bible works long term, every time in my experience. Putting his word to the test is what compels me to strongly believe it is all real and true. To answer your question, "where is God now", I would only say that he often seems to let us go our own way and lean unto our own understanding to solve our problems, neglecting His counsel, and let us see what the outcome yields. I think that is going on now.

Like you I infer, I am a "college puke". I went to UCLA, Berkeley, and Univ of Mich, and ended up with a Masters Degree in Engineering. I think the greatest outcome of value of all those 7 years was to be a person that thinks like a systems engineer - i.e. kind of looking at the "big picture" in our current affairs in this country and trying to put all the pieces together to gain understanding as to how we got ourselves into the messes we are in at present and where the critical failure lies. I believe the discrimination and hatred today are a result of our capitalism getting out of hand and benefitting only a few at the top, where the middle class isn't being adequately rewarded for its working harder than ever and getting ever deeper in debt, and the very poor being basically desperate with little to nothing to give them hope or even put food on the table. This tends to put people at odds with each other and cast blame for our poor predicament and look for scapegoats to blame and hate. Unfortunately, that ends up with certain races blaming others for all the welfare costs as our big problem and the people coming over the border that take our jobs and so on. But these costs are not what are the biggest pieces of our spending or cause of our problems. Our endless wars like in the middle east benefit the military industrial complex that Eisenhower warned against, and the oil companies and businesses that serve the military. These wars cost us trillions of $$, but we keep them going to ensure our continued supply of oil and other industrial gains. Then we have stock markets where individuals with some discretionary income can invest in businesses and expect ever increasing dividends from their investments. So CEOs of companies are ever worried that the stockholders are well and increasingly rewarded as thier primary goal if they want to keep their jobs and their stunning salaries (look at the firing of Mark Fields at Ford recently, even though he was doing a stellar job in my opinion of making them world class, but the profits during his watch where investment in electric vehicles and self driving cars really dramatically decreased profits compared to his predecessor, Alan Mullaly, so he was fired). Thus CEOs increasingly are looking for cost reductions to boost profits and end up shipping jobs overseas increasingly where labor is cheap, rather than invest in a way that benefits our country in the long term or in many cases their own company long term. So we get a well-compensated upper middle class and rich who really didn't do any physical or other kind of work other than make wise investments in the stock market, and then also benefit at tax time with income tax breaks that allow them to avoid paying much in the way of taxes on their rewards (our politicians are in the upper middle class too, so why not give themselves more gravy for all their "hard work")? So we end up with a desperate middle class especially in the midwest and south who just may not know why they are in their predicaments, but the do know they want change, and demand it at election time. So we now have Trump. Unfortunately I see little to nothing in his plans that will improve this situation, so I do expect increasing strife in our country until we might even tear ourselves apart and end up at odds with the rest of the world. I do not believe Trump's principles are guided by the counsel of God, so I am not expecting a good outcome from his term in office. Unfortunately our godless congress in total doesn't offer much hope. It is all about money, is my conclusion, and money never satisfies, no matter how much you have. And the wealthy just keep wanting more for themselves in order to gain their ultimate goal, that will continue to elude them. That is why I say that until we decide to make the Lord the lord of our lives, we will continue to go downhill and suffer for it until our self pride is broken. The Bible also counsels that "seeking riches is the root of all kinds of evil" and also that "it will be easier for a camel to thread the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven". There is a reason for these grave warnings.

Sorry it took so long to get this all out, but that is where I am at (if anyone even bothered to get through all this).

* some priests are really gifted!

read every word, but we gotta find our way back to antique chryslers, man. c'mon, black plymouth convertibles! we can do this!
 
... maybe i should have added huac, mccarthyism, red channels, george wallace, the development of thermonukes, birchers, jim crow. ...
It was this part I took to be a shot at me by implying my association with any those listed. Was I mistaken? If so how so?
 
When I waded through the George Carlin videos above, I had the following descriptors come to mind:

Intelligent, witty, prideful, angry, contempt, disrespect, vulgar, empty and with no real hope.

George had a difficult life if you look at his biography, and he died in 2008 at a relatively young age of 71. He suffered from long term heart disease and alchoholism and pain killer addiction and ultimately died of heart failure. Anger is one of the most dangerous qualities that leads to heart disease, as the body was never designed to be on alert all the time. Despite his intellect, and accolades received for his performances, his life was not one I would strive to emulate.

I would rather choose a life of love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control. For me, an unexamined life is just not worth living. The above qualities are promised by God to increasingly imbue one's life when one receives Him as lord of their life. I have never regretted making that decision in my life, and it was made based on a deep evaluation of the Bible, to be sure I was not choosing to believe something phony from the beginning. I would never turn back to my previous life for all the riches in this world, including a fleet of my favorite 100 C bodies all restored to factory and a huge garage to store them in.

I would rather listen to videos from one of my favorite artists, such as Michael W. Smith, such as the following rather than the above videos of George's "comedy":







Peace to you.
 
I'm Speaking nothing about my beliefs in religion but I will say that Christian music is one of the absolute worst.
 
that's the problem i have with gospels. whether canonical or gnostic, and the Bible in general. these works were all created by people and subject to human fallability. no one knows how the image came to be on the Shroud. i like to think of it as a kind of a first century "selfie" taken by The Man himself. would have been nice if He had included a caption but that's where Faith comes in. and hey, peace be with you also.

That's why I mention the Dead Sea scrolls...

The Dead Sea Scrolls can also give us confidence in the reliability of the Old Testament manuscripts since there were minimal differences between the manuscripts that had previously been discovered and those that were found in Qumran. Clearly this is a testament to the way God has preserved His Word down through the centuries, protecting it from extinction and guarding it against significant error.

What are the Dead Sea Scrolls and why are they important?
 
Regarding Carlin, I would just say this: Don't mistake intelligence for wisdom.

Plenty of intelligent people, college instructors among them, are hard-pressed to function in the real world. Carlin is funny, he's intelligent, but as Steve notes... he's bitter, angry and makes the classic mistake of confusing the Lord with the flawed actions of man. I'm not aware of any part of the Bible that says Christians are to kill in the name of the Lord, although flawed men has done such. What I am aware of in the Bible are Martyrs who die at the hand of man, for their belief in the Lord.

The Humanist believes that man is naturally good... although he relies on government to create regulations and laws to keep man in check. His rights are granted from Man to man.

Religious doctrine usually recognizes that man is flawed and not good by nature (Christians would call this original sin). Religion dictates a moral code that we attempt to follow, but often do not. Early law is based on those moral codes (murder, theft, deceit, etc.) Along with these codes come God-given rights that cannot be taken away by "man".

Along with Matt, I'm not much of a Christian music fan, with a few exceptions:

 
Religion has all the basis covered when it comes to answers.

And when there is no possible answer, it's " that's God's will" . You can't refute that, awfully convenient.but again my rebuttal is in the video
 
Regarding Carlin, I would just say this: Don't mistake intelligence for wisdom.

Plenty of intelligent people, college instructors among them, are hard-pressed to function in the real world. Carlin is funny, he's intelligent, but as Steve notes... he's bitter, angry and makes the classic mistake of confusing the Lord with the flawed actions of man. I'm not aware of any part of the Bible that says Christians are to kill in the name of the Lord, although flawed men has done such. What I am aware of in the Bible are Martyrs who die at the hand of man, for their belief in the Lord.

The Humanist believes that man is naturally good... although he relies on government to create regulations and laws to keep man in check. His rights are granted from Man to man.

Religious doctrine usually recognizes that man is flawed and not good by nature (Christians would call this original sin). Religion dictates a moral code that we attempt to follow, but often do not. Early law is based on those moral codes (murder, theft, deceit, etc.) Along with these codes come God-given rights that cannot be taken away by "man".

Along with Matt, I'm not much of a Christian music fan, with a few exceptions:



I would often take it a step further, as many times, people of exceptional intelligence are likely to have the worst judgment from what I have seen. But also, not always either. I had a boss for example, that was the brightest and also possessed some of the best judgment I have ever seen. A complete joy to have worked with. And he rarely ever failed at what he tried to achieve.

I believe the key as to what distinguishes the successful, content intelligent people from those who are not is how much self-pride they have in their lives. If they see their "gift" as making them exceptional compared to others in life, their pride blinds them to truth, and their lives suffer for it. Humility is a far more powerful and successful quality than pride in my experience.
 
Last edited:
Regarding Carlin, I would just say this: Don't mistake intelligence for wisdom.

Plenty of intelligent people, college instructors among them, are hard-pressed to function in the real world. Carlin is funny, he's intelligent, but as Steve notes... he's bitter, angry and makes the classic mistake of confusing the Lord with the flawed actions of man. I'm not aware of any part of the Bible that says Christians are to kill in the name of the Lord, although flawed men has done such. What I am aware of in the Bible are Martyrs who die at the hand of man, for their belief in the Lord.

The Humanist believes that man is naturally good... although he relies on government to create regulations and laws to keep man in check. His rights are granted from Man to man.

Religious doctrine usually recognizes that man is flawed and not good by nature (Christians would call this original sin). Religion dictates a moral code that we attempt to follow, but often do not. Early law is based on those moral codes (murder, theft, deceit, etc.) Along with these codes come God-given rights that cannot be taken away by "man".

Along with Matt, I'm not much of a Christian music fan, with a few exceptions:



I am a complete non believer. Yet I have a strong moral code. It's funny, people I meet think I am a good church going Catholic, yet when I say I'm a non believer, they don't believe me , some actually wanna argue with me.
 
I am a complete non believer. Yet I have a strong moral code. It's funny, people I meet think I am a good church going Catholic, yet when I say I'm a non believer, they don't believe me , some actually wanna argue with me.

I don't personally find the two mutually exclusive either.

I remember your thead of perhaps a couple years ago wherein you were very kind and helpful to an older lady by giving her a ride in one of your cars that her and her husband used to own, after you resurrected it I believe. You also took her to lunch as well I think. I thought that spoke volumes about your character and heart. And when you do speak a bit bluntly, I always keep in mind your previous good deeds. I am sure there are other examples such as how you love your family and have really good words for how you love and appreciate your kids. And I also note that at least you and I share a lot of common ground in car matters when others do not, so I never take anything too personal from you. I truly wish you all the best. My comments above were only meant to share what makes my life content and full, and the music that gives me joy, and hope all on this site can take them with that intent and maybe think about them in case it might help with anything you are dealing with. That is all. Take care of yourselves.
 
I don't take anything personal Steve ( except Stan) but when the subject of religion comes up I often can't help myself. ....

I mean absolutely no disrespect to you . You only have my admiration. ....:thumbsup:
 
Back
Top