Adjustable Strut Rods

[Big_John]

Regarding LCA bushings... Unless you personally changed them, you can't really put too much stock in their condition. I've seen guys install just one side or use parts that are different age (rubber isn't like fine wine), manufacturers, and/or quality. Then some install them incorrectly by tightening the LCA while the car is jacked up so the rubber tends to tear when the car is at ride height. Sometimes it's all of the above. LOL.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

The front end is out of square. The front left tire sat back 3/8 more than the right

That is staging beam stagger. Longer rollout in beams to keep you from redlighting.

 

[CBODY67]

I know that the welding of the pockets and stub frame in general sometimes look "sloppy" compared to other welding I've seen. Earlier on, I wondered why the seams on the stub frame were on continuously welded rather than just segments with no weld, on the same pieces. The trusted mechanic said it was better in segments than if it was solid. I trusted his judgment on those things. Even with the apparent factory sloppiness on the '66 stub frame, NO tire wear issues ever, or strut rod bushing wear, or even the lca pivot bushing, either. So, everything must have been positioned correctly when it was welded. So, some might point to these things and easily talk about how poor of a job the factory sometimes did, as they point to their "fixes" for sale.

Just remember that whatever compliance was originally designed into the front suspension mounting/pivot points needs to be there so that resulting forces are not transferred into other areas of the frame/body unit that were not really designed to deal with them. And that means f/r compliance of the control arms and such, too.

For the '64 model year, Ford full-size cars had their "Million Dollar Ride", where they introduced "voided sections" of their front suspension strut rod bushings. Looked massive and firm on the outside, but with internal "voids" to better impact absorption. So they used these bushings to allow for a bit more f/r wheel movement as a bump was encountered. A friend had one of these cars. It developed a "brake pull" that no brake shop could fix (several times). It was probably the brake jobs (at national chain stores in the middle '70s), but it also possibly was the result of those strut rod bushings having some age on them, although the front end was rebuilt a year or so prior. That was also before we ever considered the condition of the lca pivot bushings. Not sure if "the industry" came up with a harder bushing replacement (police applications?) as they seemed to use this same arrangement for a bit longer. OR if their new '65s got away from that whole deal in the re-design?

Be that as it may.
CBODY67

 

[CBODY67]

One last thought. In the later '80s, when 4-wheel alignment machines were becoming more prevalent, they came out with a spec called "setback". This was the amount "out of square" the rear axle was to the front wheels. It apparently was normal for something like .25 or .5 degree? I don't recall the exact numbers, but there was a little allowable tolerance. If the rear axle was considered as the base of the square, if it was cocked a bit, then the steering wheel centering (for the car to drive straight) could be affected. If the front wheels were the base of the square measurement, then the car would probably dog-track and such. I would suspect that if the front wheels weren't square/even, then something had to compensate for it to drive straight when the steering wheel was centered. Like an uneven, side to side, adjustment in the tie rod adjustments.

Just some thoughts,
CBODY67

 

[65Fury440]

Hey Doug, some food for thought...

How old are the bushings you have now? The condition of the bushings may be the biggest cause of the difference you're describing... and if they are old bushings, could have worn differently for a number of reasons, including fluid leaks and solvents used for cleanup. IMO, I'd want to see where you wind up after good bushings are installed.

Also, the strut rod is going to be under tremendous pressure during braking. If you build your own, think over kill on the strength of every component. The weakest part will be the failure that may kill your car, I'd rather see weight come out of almost anything else, than the strut rod.

You may also be able to have a frame machine pull the mount surface a bit for a little correction. I see the alignment thoughts @Big_John mentioned, but I'd be skeptical of the quality of materials used in non-factory strut rods... they had better be very strong.

Hi Jeff,
When I was doing the sub frame connectors, I was really worried that they weren't going to put in straight, so that brought on the measure-fest. Using the diagonal method illustrated in the FSM, narrowed the variance down to the front left frame horn.
At the time this was done, the bushing were unknown years old, but still intact.
The idea behind putting these things together, is to make the car stronger, safer, and more stable at speed. I doubt much weight, and no cost will be saved. The car is getting a workout, from brake torquing in the burnout box to dropping off on the big end.
If you check the parts list, the 5/8"suspension tubes and ends. I spoke to a guy at Allstar who was very helpful. The stock nuts are 1/2", the new 5/8" should be stronger.
My experience with suspensions using these type tubes were both 4 links, one in a Mud Bog truck with 44s, and the other was my Max Wedge race car, with slicks.Same size tubes, maybe lesser quality ends were used.
I think it is overdone, but then again, that's why I posted this here.

A frame puller was an option I looked at. If there was someone I trusted I would try it.
I am still sandblasting and painting everything, maybe in the next 2 weeks I can get it back together.
Thanks for the help! (pic for attention)

 

[65Fury440]

One last thought. In the later '80s, when 4-wheel alignment machines were becoming more prevalent, they came out with a spec called "setback". This was the amount "out of square" the rear axle was to the front wheels. It apparently was normal for something like .25 or .5 degree? I don't recall the exact numbers, but there was a little allowable tolerance. If the rear axle was considered as the base of the square, if it was cocked a bit, then the steering wheel centering (for the car to drive straight) could be affected. If the front wheels were the base of the square measurement, then the car would probably dog-track and such. I would suspect that if the front wheels weren't square/even, then something had to compensate for it to drive straight when the steering wheel was centered. Like an uneven, side to side, adjustment in the tie rod adjustments.

Just some thoughts,
CBODY67

The next trip for my car will be to an alignment shop. There doesn't seem to be as many around FL as up north.
Finding a tech who can do the alignment to non stock specs may be even harder.

 

[65Fury440]

@CBODY67
I had no pull or tire wear issues either. None that popped up in limited use anyway.

 

[65Fury440]

That is staging beam stagger. Longer rollout in beams to keep you from redlighting.

LOL. I was actually reading a story about this being done intentionally.

 

[65Fury440]

Regarding LCA bushings... Unless you personally changed them, you can't really put too much stock in their condition. I've seen guys install just one side or use parts that are different age (rubber isn't like fine wine), manufacturers, and/or quality. Then some install them incorrectly by tightening the LCA while the car is jacked up so the rubber tends to tear when the car is at ride height. Sometimes it's all of the above. LOL.

Funny you should mention this. I sent my first Moog set back to R/A, they were already cracking.
I got some A/C Delco bushings that look way better.

 

[Big_John]

That is staging beam stagger. Longer rollout in beams to keep you from redlighting.

LOL. I was actually reading a story about this being done intentionally.

I was trying to figure out a good way to do that back in the 70's. LOL

 

[70bigblockdodge]

LOL. I was actually reading a story about this being done intentionally.

Oh yeah, long time trick.
Spacer back the control arm, and strut to get the full inch.
It will not help handling but your moving before the next guy.

 

[Big_John]

Funny you should mention this. I sent my first Moog set back to R/A, they were already cracking.
I got some A/C Delco bushings that look way better.

I think Rock Auto has some suppliers that have some old and dusty stuff to get rid of.

Interestingly enough, I got a air blend door from RA just the other day. It only took a couple days and come to find out, it was from a warehouse about 10 miles from here. The place is a local supplier and owned by one guy.

C-Body content here. The guy that owns the warehouse wanted to buy some more property where this was located. For Sale - https://syracuse.craigslist.org/cto/d/1970-dodge-polara-convertible/6765971007.html I looked at the car for @ayilar in December.

 

[65Fury440]

Oh yeah, long time trick.
Spacer back the control arm, and strut to get the full inch.
It will not help handling but your moving before the next guy.

Every little bit helps when there is money involved.
I'd be happy launching consistently.


Not Me.

 

[cantflip]

Hi Jeff,
When I was doing the sub frame connectors, I was really worried that they weren't going to put in straight, so that brought on the measure-fest. Using the diagonal method illustrated in the FSM, narrowed the variance down to the front left frame horn.
At the time this was done, the bushing were unknown years old, but still intact.
The idea behind putting these things together, is to make the car stronger, safer, and more stable at speed. I doubt much weight, and no cost will be saved. The car is getting a workout, from brake torquing in the burnout box to dropping off on the big end.
If you check the parts list, the 5/8"suspension tubes and ends. I spoke to a guy at Allstar who was very helpful. The stock nuts are 1/2", the new 5/8" should be stronger.
My experience with suspensions using these type tubes were both 4 links, one in a Mud Bog truck with 44s, and the other was my Max Wedge race car, with slicks.Same size tubes, maybe lesser quality ends were used.
I think it is overdone, but then again, that's why I posted this here.

A frame puller was an option I looked at. If there was someone I trusted I would try it.
I am still sandblasting and painting everything, maybe in the next 2 weeks I can get it back together.
Thanks for the help! (pic for attention)
View attachment 262465

 

[67Monaco]

The next trip for my car will be to an alignment shop. There doesn't seem to be as many around FL as up north.
Finding a tech who can do the alignment to non stock specs may be even harder.

Ain't hard to do at home. Just have to have the want to do it. You've gone this far, what's a few more bucks to know it's done the wat you want.

 

[65Fury440]

Just a follow up.
I put together the strut rods and they work great.
Spoke to a designer at Allstar Performance about choosing threaded tube and ends, he was very helpful.
After bolting the LCA pivot shafts in and measuring a lot, my car has about .133 inches difference in the fore/aft of the front mounting points of the strut rods. The adjustable rods made taking up the difference a cake walk.
Just for reference, I used this length threaded rod.
Allstar Performance ALL56806-215: Tube 5/8 Thread Blk 21.5 | JEGS
I'll leave the parts list out, as I don't claim to be any type of engineer. I feel confident in the setup I have, it isn't hard to make a copy of the PST deals. Use the best ends you can get, there is no measurable play in the pro series moly end I bout.
The only custom thing I needed to do, was to turn down some 5/8"x 3/4" bushings to 11/16" od, to fit snugly in the LCA opening. Oh, and weld grade 8 bolts in the clevis ends.
All in these are less than $150.

View attachment 271549

 

[mr. fix it]

Looks great! Well done!

 

[65Fury440]

Ain't hard to do at home. Just have to have the want to do it. You've gone this far, what's a few more bucks to know it's done the wat you want.

I took your advice. I downloaded a smartphone app and cut a machinists rule to hit the outside edge of the rim.
I set camber - .25 negative , my caster is -1 on one side and +1.5 on the other side.
I need to mess with it more, I already have an appointment with an alignment guy I feel good about ( 2 others I wasn't comfortable with) so he can recheck my work.

 

[mr. fix it]

BYW, did you have to dismantle the lower control arms to install the new setup or did you simply cut the old ones off?

 

[65Fury440]

BYW, did you have to dismantle the lower control arms to install the new setup or did you simply cut the old ones off?

My LCAs were out for a rebuild, I don't think they would slide back enough to allow the strut bar to come out without disconnecting at least the LBJ. The new adjustables would go in no problem though.