BEST RADIATOR OPTION

[JimmyG]

Several years ago I took a three core (I have also done it with two core) rad and tried an experiment. I had double 1 inch tubes installed instead of a two or three row core. It was marvelous!
It held 3/4 of a gallon more coolant, looked original, and stood up to every heat laden punishment style of driving that I did. Slow traffic, long idle periods, trailer towing and family cruising.
It is important to measure carefully that the tanks will accept such a wide set of tubes, and that the shop can do it.
Some would poo poo the concept,...but let me tell you that it never let me down and was still going strong years afterwards. Good luck!

 

[Big_John]

The point is that the 3 row will 'likely' get the job done but it's going to run hotter than a big 2 row aluminum radiator. That's less comfortable. I would much rather have my car running cooler just based on comfort alone.

Not to bust your chops or discredit you or your company, but I'd love to hear you back up that statement.

Full disclosure: I have a Spectrum CU332 in my car. It replaced a smaller, offshore sourced, aluminum radiator that fit the incorrect radiator support. When I swapped the rad support, the radiator had to be replaced and your company wasn't involved here or I might have looked seriously at it. Would have painted the top tank black though. LOL.

If it's a different design, that's fine. If it's based on aluminum v. copper, then I have to question if that is really true. If you have some data or even "real world" experiences to share, that's good enough for me.

Again, not trying to say anything bad AT ALL. Your product looks to be good quality. If you can prove to me that replacing my CU332 would bring down my idling temps on 95-100 degree days, I might even be interested, although it's not in the cards for this year (too much $$ spent this year). Just would like to hear a little back-up on that statement.

Thanks.

 

[BigblueC]

Aluminum proved itself to be superior to copper as the preferred cooling medium for standard radiators nearly 40 years go, ONCE INDUSTRIAL TECHNIQUE PERMITTED MASS PRODUCTION OF ALUMINUM TUBING AND WELDING IT TO ALUMINUM FINS.

5. Aluminum costs less than copper. MUCH less, as in $1775/ton vs. $6758/ton. This translates into considerably greater expense for a copper radiator core

I'm 99% sure that cost was the reason for OEMs getting away from copper radiators, just as you listed in point #5.

Also, copper has a greater conductivity than aluminum, which means all other things held equal, a copper radiator will out perform an aluminum one. The same applies to electrical wiring.
"...copper is more conductive than aluminum. In fact, aluminum only has 60% of the thermal conductivity that copper does."
Copper vs. Aluminum Heatsinks: What You Need to Know.

I have real real world experience with copper vs aluminum radiators in a newer car of mine. A copper core (and plastic tanks) radiator is available as a direct bolt-in OE replacement for the factory aluminum/plastic radiator. The original radiator did the job well, but with the copper core radiator in I now have problems building heat. But I plan on adding a power adder to this car, which is why I went with a better radiator.

I also learned about copper being better than aluminum with a piece of John Deere equipment. Long story short, if we wanted an aluminum radiator it had to have a minimum of 10% greater surface area than the original copper, which was big. That was spec'd by John Deere.

 

[DDR2467]

Love seeing the back and forth posts. I’m learning a lot and am able to make my own educated decisions based on them. Through word of mouth around my area I decided to have the radiator looked at by an extremely reputable radiator shop. He sent me a picture showing me that something, possibly the fan, had come in contact with the tubes and cut some of them (pic attached). He said he will repair the tubes, pressure test it, fix some other things, and if he felt it was reliable enough, only then would he charge me. He also informed me that this particular radiator was not the original, rather an aftermarket Modine brand. He said it was a good enough radiator to go ahead and try to fix. If anyone needs the name of what I feel is a GREAT resource for radiator advice/repair feel free to message me and I will give you his contact info. His shop is in west central CT.

 

[Ccas]

Several posts discuss 'copper' as being a better than Aluminum and while that is true, there is no such thing as a 'copper' radiator in our cars. They are a mix of copper and brass. Brass is needed for stability as an all copper radiator would be too brittle. Brass is not as good of a conductor as aluminum or copper. Even if you call it a draw, Big 2 row aluminum radiators hold a lot more fluid than a 3 row OEM radiator. More fluid dissipates the heat better.

 

[Ccas]

Not to bust your chops or discredit you or your company, but I'd love to hear you back up that statement.

Full disclosure: I have a Spectrum CU332 in my car. It replaced a smaller, offshore sourced, aluminum radiator that fit the incorrect radiator support. When I swapped the rad support, the radiator had to be replaced and your company wasn't involved here or I might have looked seriously at it. Would have painted the top tank black though. LOL.

If it's a different design, that's fine. If it's based on aluminum v. copper, then I have to question if that is really true. If you have some data or even "real world" experiences to share, that's good enough for me.

Again, not trying to say anything bad AT ALL. Your product looks to be good quality. If you can prove to me that replacing my CU332 would bring down my idling temps on 95-100 degree days, I might even be interested, although it's not in the cards for this year (too much $$ spent this year). Just would like to hear a little back-up on that statement.

Thanks.

We are just a small company but well before we were even around, there have been many tests done comparing radiator technologies. Example; Anybody look at a 1963 HiPo Corvette OEM radiator? 2 Row aluminum! We've done our own volume tests that prove the extra volume present in big 2 row radiators. We've viewed feedback on forums like these and from past customers that time and time again quote real world significant temperature drops. We also look for owners that have NOT seen the improvement. It's extremely rare. I personally experimented with countless radiator combinations over the past 30 years before Cold Case even existed. I have first hand knowledge that 4 row copper/brass couldn't keep my 67 GTO cool. Even 2 1" rows couldn't keep my car cool. Only when we added dual 1 1/4" tube core did my car finally settle in at 190 no matter how long in traffic or outside temp. This is just one example but take a look around. Aluminum radiators now outsell copper brass radiators by about 10 to 1 and it's been that way for about 10 years. If this was a big marketing gimmick, the jig would have been up long ago. I don't think any amount of scientific study of this subject is as valuable as the overwhelming real world results your fellow car owners are purporting.

That being said, as I previously mentioned, just because big 2 row aluminum is a better 'value' doesn't mean you can't get good results from your OEM radiator. We simply suggest that for those who want or need the best possible value and cooling solution for peace of mind (even if it 'might' be overkill), then the big 2 row aluminum radiators are the way to go. Literally ALL the major radiator brands use Big 2 row. If owners want to spend more money for less capacity, then they have placed other factors like originality and fitment as more important.... and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[Big_John]

We are just a small company but well before we were even around, there have been many tests done comparing radiator technologies. Example; Anybody look at a 1963 HiPo Corvette OEM radiator? 2 Row aluminum! We've done our own volume tests that prove the extra volume present in big 2 row radiators. We've viewed feedback on forums like these and from past customers that time and time again quote real world significant temperature drops. We also look for owners that have NOT seen the improvement. It's extremely rare. I personally experimented with countless radiator combinations over the past 30 years before Cold Case even existed. I have first hand knowledge that 4 row copper/brass couldn't keep my 67 GTO cool. Even 2 1" rows couldn't keep my car cool. Only when we added dual 1 1/4" tube core did my car finally settle in at 190 no matter how long in traffic or outside temp. This is just one example but take a look around. Aluminum radiators now outsell copper brass radiators by about 10 to 1 and it's been that way for about 10 years. If this was a big marketing gimmick, the jig would have been up long ago. I don't think any amount of scientific study of this subject is as valuable as the overwhelming real world results your fellow car owners are purporting.

That being said, as I previously mentioned, just because big 2 row aluminum is a better 'value' doesn't mean you can't get good results from your OEM radiator. We simply suggest that for those who want or need the best possible value and cooling solution for peace of mind (even if it 'might' be overkill), then the big 2 row aluminum radiators are the way to go. Literally ALL the major radiator brands use Big 2 row. If owners want to spend more money for less capacity, then they have placed other factors like originality and fitment as more important.... and there's nothing wrong with that.

Thanks for the answer.

IIRC, aluminum was done for weight savings in the '63 Corvette though.

My understanding of why aluminum is used in radiators is because of (not necessarily in order) weight, ease of manufacturing, and cost of copper. Probably some environmental/health aspects to not having the soldering process too. Aluminum rads being furnace brazed and all aluminum versus the soldering of copper and steel. The last time I was in Delphi/Harrison radiator, (quite a while ago) all I saw was aluminum radiators being made, but I never got too far on the production side as my business there involved dealing with the QC department.

I think you may have answered my question indirectly mentioning the 2 row copper with 1" tube core and the 2 row aluminum 1 1/4" core. In other words, the tubes are larger in the direction that the air flows across them. I guess that would be deeper(?) and would create more area for the fins to contact. I did a little searching and what I read suggests that that is the reason they cool better... This was one source WHY DO ALUMINUM RADIATORS COOL BETTER THAN COPPER? – DeWitts™ Direct Fit® Aluminum Radiators That would make some sense and would follow the extra volume of coolant needed that was mentioned in a previous post.

 

[Gerald Morris]

Again...


Air flow, fin restriction, fan type, blade quantity and more all play a part in cooling beside capacity.

SURE! But withOUT ADEQUATE COOLANT, one is blowing and sucking hot air. Again....

 

[Gerald Morris]

Several years ago I took a three core (I have also done it with two core) rad and tried an experiment. I had double 1 inch tubes installed instead of a two or three row core. It was marvelous!
It held 3/4 of a gallon more coolant, looked original, and stood up to every heat laden punishment style of driving that I did. Slow traffic, long idle periods, trailer towing and family cruising.
It is important to measure carefully that the tanks will accept such a wide set of tubes, and that the shop can do it.
Some would poo poo the concept,...but let me tell you that it never let me down and was still going strong years afterwards. Good luck!

Your experience is VERY MUCH like mine! I can buy TWO MOP753A radiators, full price from Cold Case for the price of re-coring my venerable and excellent original Mopar 2524984.

I know a True Artist with old school copper radiators down here who owns his own shop, Precision Engineering, 815 W Grant Rd, 85705 who first impressed me over 23 yrs ago when he made a heater core for my 1962 Ford Ranchero from scratch, after my failure to find ANYTHING for that little truck. These guys are The Best at Radiators. Be this as it is....

SHOP TIME CO$T$!!!! Good as John and Jerry are up on West Grant, I'll tell Moparians to roll with Cold Case and Stay Cool, as I do here.

 

[DDR2467]

Just got word from Jimmy at Valley Radiator. Looks like the fins/tubes of my radiator had some sort of calcium build up them which he said would decrease the efficiency. He is ordering me a VistaPro radiator. Said he didn’t believe in the aluminum radiators as much as he did the copper/brass ones. He mentioned the grounding issues, ph issues, electrolysis, etc. He said they weren’t bad... but just recommended the “old school” style since that’s what was in there to begin with. He emphasized that Chrysler engineered things to work the way they were supposed to for the cars they were made for. He also said not to get too involved with aftermarket things such as thermal fan clutches, lubricant additives, etc. I guess Modine was bought out by VistaPro and pretty much kept up with the quality. LMK what everyone thinks and thank you all for being such a big part of my decision process!

 

[Carl Severa]

For what it's worth, I just had a Spectre Performance radiator, OEM, which is made of brass and copper installed in my 1969 Dodge Monaco. It had a 3 core aluminum in it for years until I shredded it with a fan blade digging into it and causing my need for the replacement. I paid 170 bucks for the radiator, again it's brass and copper. The unit came from RockAuto online. I

 

[DDR2467]

So here’s where I’m at. New VistaPro radiator installed. I’ve been told that this car didn’t have an overflow... is this correct? If it didn’t, is there anyone that has a ‘69 300 that can suggest a better one than I currently have and where the best place for it is. The line I have now going from the radiator to the tube is where it was when I got the car but obviously I will be rerouting it so it doesn’t get pinched.

Also, seems as though (using same mounting holes as when I got it) the radiator is not level with the cars frame. It is tilted downward on the drivers side... if anyone has pictures of the mounting holes they have please lmk. I’m not exactly sure what is original and what holes have been added over the years.

Interior pictures of this area would be a great help! I searched the internet and this forum but didn’t find any detailed pics or info about this.

TY in advance!!!

 

[Gerald Morris]

Get your money back from New Vi$ta Pro. Stuff like aligning the mounting holes for the radiator support on a given automobile model is BASIC! If they screwed that up, then WHAT ELSE (OK, I ADMIT I'm begging this question.) did they screw up. Kwollitee with Kapital K bro.

 

[1966newport]

no 22inch radiators?

 

[DDR2467]

no 22inch radiators?

Sorry... I am a rookie that is trying to learn so I have no clue what you mean by “no 22” radiators?”

 

[DDR2467]

So, yoke was designed for 22” radiator because the car wasn’t designed for a/c. What I got with the car with was a 26” radiator, so, I got another 26” radiator. Pretty sure that’s why mounting holes don’t line up exactly. Must have been the plan of the previous owner(s) to put in a/c (hence the bracket) and therefore the 26” radiator. So... I leveled the radiator, drilled a couple new holes, and voila, im all set.

 

[1966newport]

I met that ccas doesnt sell a radiator for cars that came with a 22 inch radiator

 

[Gerald Morris]

I met that ccas doesnt sell a radiator for cars that came with a 22 inch radiator

The MOP753a, ( https://www.coldcaseradiators.com/product/68-73-bce-body-16x22-auto-aluminum-performance-radiator )which I have is rated for the 22" carrier, and does bolt up, BUT, its a 16x22, NOT an 18 x 22" surface. Despite that detail, it has greater fluid volume and cooling surface area, with the high fin density and 1.25" tubes. Mind you, they have an 18x22" radiator, the MOP751 ( 62-74 A,B,C,E Body 18x22 Manual Aluminum Performance Radiator | Cold Case Aluminum Performance Radiators) which would work nicely on early C bodies, '62-64, BUT, due to the smaller return hose port, WON'T do well for much later. I've begged them to take the core for the MOP751 and weld the tanks and hose fittings from the MOP753 onto it, which would make a PERFECT 18x22" C body radiator which would utilize those extra 2 inches provided by the 18 inch radiator mount which my '66 Newport, like MANY mid 60s C bodies really needs! If others of you besides myself start yelling at Cold Case to MAKE SOME 18 X 22 INCH RADIATORS WITH THE 1.5 INCH INLET ON THE TOP RIGHT, THE 1.75" OUTLET ON THE BOTTOM LEFTm then I think they would find MANY CONVERTS FROM THIS FORUM AS WELL AS OTHER OLD MOPAR BLOGS!

The pity is, Cold Case makes an EXCELLENT radiator, with high fin density, combined with dual rows of 1 1/4 inch tubes that can cool a B/RB motor even in city traffic during the 110 Fahrenheit summer days of Southern Arizona, but for want of a little innovative design and marketing, they're losing business they SHOULD be getting. I notice Speedcooling is making the very size radiator I'm describing again, though he uses only 1 inch tubes, and is somewhat irresponsive to his potential customers in different ways.... SIGH!

 

[Gerald Morris]

Hey, Cold Case!

How many potential buyers for an 18" x 22" core, like the MOP751, fitted with the same tanks you have on the MOP 753a would it take to make it worth your shop's while to run a batch of these off? I would LOVE to have such a radiator, and suspect a number of other folks who drive mid 60s C bodies with 18x22" carriers would too.

 

[Gerald Morris]

So, yoke was designed for 22” radiator because the car wasn’t designed for a/c. What I got with the car with was a 26” radiator, so, I got another 26” radiator. Pretty sure that’s why mounting holes don’t line up exactly. Must have been the plan of the previous owner(s) to put in a/c (hence the bracket) and therefore the 26” radiator. So... I leveled the radiator, drilled a couple new holes, and voila, im all set.

Good job! Making do is something we all CAN do with our C bodies. I've been tempted to cut my 22 inch yoke, but would prefer to get one meant for 26" radiators. The way the sheet metal is rolled to give support and all makes me think twice about cutting. Of course, yours came that way, so you have nothing to lose. Stay Cool!