70bigblockdodge
Old Man with a Hat
You put the Z bar in the wrong way.
building a small block 4 speed c, nd help
- Thread starter blackblazer717
- Start date
commando1
Old Man with a Hat
Ok.
Imagine the zbar with only the arm that pushes the fork.
Figure the distance the fork has to pushed. eg: 3"
Position the z-bar so the arm that pushes the fork is ½ that distance CCW to 12 o'clock. eg: 1-½". The full arc of the swing will be 3".
With the z-bar now indexed correctly, look at the rod from the clutch.
Now envision how much the end of the pedal rod travels when the clutch is depressed. eg: 6"
Now you can locate the arm that the pedal rod attaches to.
Locate that arm and calculate the length of that arm so when it travels 6", it rotates the z-bar so that the arm to the fork travels 3", in this case a 2:1 ratio.
All distances are aprox.
Imagine the zbar with only the arm that pushes the fork.
Figure the distance the fork has to pushed. eg: 3"
Position the z-bar so the arm that pushes the fork is ½ that distance CCW to 12 o'clock. eg: 1-½". The full arc of the swing will be 3".
With the z-bar now indexed correctly, look at the rod from the clutch.
Now envision how much the end of the pedal rod travels when the clutch is depressed. eg: 6"
Now you can locate the arm that the pedal rod attaches to.
Locate that arm and calculate the length of that arm so when it travels 6", it rotates the z-bar so that the arm to the fork travels 3", in this case a 2:1 ratio.
All distances are aprox.
70bigblockdodge
Old Man with a Hat
The clip goes on the z bar toward the frame side.
commando1
Old Man with a Hat
The arm on the z-bar that moves fork should be
ON THE BOTTOM, and
swing CCW from the 8:00 o'clock position to 4:00 o'clock position.
Sorry about the confusion. All the rest remains the same.
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1Fury1
Slab Side Slacker
commando1
Old Man with a Hat
I've ran a hydraulic M/C to both a hydraulic slave for a convental throw out bearing and directly to a hydraulic T. O. bearing (twice actually - one a Timken and one a TRW. ).
I would never use a hydraulic T.O. bearing again on an A833.
Hydraulic T.O. bearings will not keep their adjustment the way they are mounted on the A833 input shaft and are a PITA to adjust for normal wear and tear.
I would never use a hydraulic T.O. bearing again on an A833.
Hydraulic T.O. bearings will not keep their adjustment the way they are mounted on the A833 input shaft and are a PITA to adjust for normal wear and tear.
1Fury1
Slab Side Slacker
Only 800 miles so far and no problem. Maybe I will find that out at some point. The TO bearing came with a spacer that seats right against the tranny front housing so it will never move backward.
commando1
Old Man with a Hat
Does yours also thread in and out to adjust the OAL?
blackblazer717
New Member
The z bar is NOT in wrong. Thank you very much. And commando THANK YOU very much i had a feeling you were explaining it upside down. I understand the ratio 8 & 4 now. So i should be able to make it work
70bigblockdodge
Old Man with a Hat
Well you have something wrong because the factory did it many times without reenginering the car.
commando1
Old Man with a Hat
Dave, there were many configuations of the z-bar. He cant find his correct z-bar.
Seriously, SB 4 speed C-body? Unobtanium...
It's a DIY.
70bigblockdodge
Old Man with a Hat
Well post some pictures. The bell should not make a difference, how long is the pedal to z bar push rod, how long is the adjusting rod. This is info we need if you expect help so it can be compared to other speeder c bodies. How do I know if the z bar is in correctly, even if he claims it is.
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1Fury1
Slab Side Slacker
Yes however it's threaded all the way in, that combined with the additional spacer on the back makes it rigid. Only concern is the orings could fatigue over time.
rags
Senior Member
I read through this all again. really would have recommended going hydraulic but after reading of commandos experiences i'd have to hedge. you have the factory pedal? i didn't. building the z bar was nothing. the reference points for it are all on the vehicle. make it level. index the lower arm like the commando said. 6 o'clock, the rod to throw out fork should be level. that determines the length of lower arm. upper arm basically indexed to clear firewall. factory knockout in firewall determines allowable length of upper arm. i did have to make the upper arm longer than the available space in the knockout to get the ratio needed. I put a slight bend in the rod where it passes through the firewall. it worked. no cutting. i spent more time getting the PEDAL right, but i had to fab one with no picture of the correct one and no inherent reference points. you have the correct pedal?! got a torch and a welder? this should be easy. gotta say, i'd like to post pictures but i don't really know how and am too proud to ask. real *****. i could build a whole car out of old popsicle sticks but can't post a f'in' picture. and no i don't own a cell phone. those are for you young guys. SG
blackblazer717
New Member
Definantly a proud owner of a welder. And a torch. Im sure i will be able to get the swing correct one i get the clutch side of the z figured out. I do also notice some shreek remarks regarding my own smarts and weather i have it in "wrong" or correctly. Interesting since theres no such thing as a correct z bar for my setup. Amd again commando thank you for your help. It was more of a re assurance of my own thought. I do indeed have the correct pedals. For the one who asked
rags
Senior Member
cool. torch and a welder. couple of pieces of steel. mix that with some patience and common sense. that's all you really need. oh, and a lift helps. you'll get there. SG
commando1
Old Man with a Hat
I don't want to be Danny Downer but here is where the problem will begin.
As I found out, and later confirmed by others too late for me, is that as the clutch wears, you have to start unthreading (?) the T. O. bearing. The gap tween the pressure plate and the T. O. bearing is uber sensative. Guys have been finding it very hard to maintain the gap once you start unthreading it.
With a conventional T.O.bearing bearing and fork, it only takes a minute or two to adjust the road by turning the nut.
I'm hoping your setup works as long as you own the car. You made a very slick setup.
rags
Senior Member
i can't argue with experience but as the clutch wears the fingers on the pressure plate extend back toward the throw out bearing. this would reduce any gap. actual question. how does this create an issue?
commando1
Old Man with a Hat
I found the the gap was critical to maintain the correct friction point. Too sensitive actually. Maybe it was my design and yours is more tolerant?
rags
Senior Member
i didn't use hydraulics. i built a mechanical setup twenty years ago and have been living in cave since. am i reading correctly that now there's a bolt in hydraulic throw out bearing and slave assy. for antique chryslers? if so, i'd legitimately consider changing to hydraulics if the parts were any damn good and weren't a maintenance hassle. reading about your bad experiences is a bit of a dissuasion though. also, "friction point"?
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