Carb and manifold swap - that question again

[James Romano]

Good morning everyone, I hope all is well with our "old timers" and our "newbies" are enjoying this great community.

So I've decided to swap out my original Carter and manifold to a new setup. I bought a Eddy 1906 already and am considering 3 manifolds. I have a stock motor and have no interest in building it up. I just want the old style choke out and reliability of the new carb in place. I have converted to Pertronix ignition a few years back, but that's it.

So I'm looking at the Eddy Performer (but I don't like the extra mounting holes and divorced choke mount), the Eddy Performer RPM ( might be too much for my stock motor) or a Weiand equivalent for my motor.

Also, what additional kits will I need. I was thinking of the rigid fuel kit. Rather than flexible to the fuel port ..unless there is something better. And the linkage kit.

Anything else to consider? I have a phenolic plate for heat already in place under the stock Carter as well.

Thanks a mil as always.

 

[FURYGT]

Good morning everyone, I hope all is well with our "old timers" and our "newbies" are enjoying this great community.

So I've decided to swap out my original Carter and manifold to a new setup. I bought a Eddy 1906 already and am considering 3 manifolds. I have a stock motor and have no interest in building it up. I just want the old style choke out and reliability of the new carb in place. I have converted to Pertronix ignition a few years back, but that's it.

So I'm looking at the Eddy Performer (but I don't like the extra mounting holes and divorced choke mount), the Eddy Performer RPM ( might be too much for my stock motor) or a Weiand equivalent for my motor.

Also, what additional kits will I need. I was thinking of the rigid fuel kit. Rather than flexible to the fuel port ..unless there is something better. And the linkage kit.

Anything else to consider? I have a phenolic plate for heat already in place under the stock Carter as well.

Thanks a mil as always.

If you already have a stock 4 bbl intake manifold, why change it?

 

[James Romano]

If you already have a stock 4 bbl intake manifold, why change it?

Weight, age, gunk, it's made of iron, heat issues, larger port design, better performance matchup to the new carb. I don't have the equipment to properly clean it, and sending it out for mods and cleaning will cost almost as much as buying a new one here in NY.

 

[413]

A drain pan, gas and a selection of brushes will clean that intake quickly on the bench.

IMO you are way ahead with stock intake, carb and thermostatic choke.

What car and engine you working on.

 

[HOT FURY]

You wont get any noticeable performance improvements with the performer intake change but will look nicer and aluminum is better for heat exchange so clean up the old and repaint or drop the new one on either way its personal preference mostly on the look for this application. You will likely see improvements from that particular carb with throttle response and drivability IF tuned properly to your motor. If you're going thru the trouble to drop a new intake on it you might as well take a bit more and drop one of those howards rattler cams in to wake the car up! Then you will see the most from the intake/carb swap.

 

[496 polara]

What car and engine you working on?

You can always paint the aluminum intake engine color if you want to appear stock looking.

 

[CBODY67]

I can understand the desire for a newer-production era carburetor, for several reasons. More performance, IF you might be able to feel 7 or so flywheel horsepower, which decreases with power absorption of the other driveline items before it gets to the ground, to a probable 85%$ level.

So, rather than "seat of the pants" horsepower at 2500rpm, what you'll feel MIGHT be just a hair better off-idle throttle response and little more.

The basic Performer intake in normal bright aluminum can decrease weight, but also use the intake set with the paper gaskets (to go between the aluminum and steel valley pan gasket). Which was OEM for the 1969 6bbl 440 engines. Consider not reinstalling the "insulator" between the bottom of the intake manifold and valley pan, too, for better airflow under the intake.

Should be a factory "hard line" fuel line between the fuel filter and the carb. Might be available from some vendors as "Fine Lines" or similar, in the repro side of things. Just plain steel, which can be polished a bit with red Scotchbrite, rather than chrome.

As you know, the 1906 has an electric choke, which will need to be fine-tuned, as to thermostat adjustment, for your locale. There should be a hardware kit with the new manifold to plug the holes not needed for your application.

I'm presuming that as you are using an AFB-style carb, that means 1967 and prior model year, which also means the air cleaner mounting "hole" is of that size, which is smaller than similar Holley carbs and might be different than what your current air cleaner base is. So check that.

End result, other than the carb upgrade, NOT a lot of power to be gained with the aluminum intake over the existing OEM intake. At least not nearly enough to justify the cost of a new one, even "on sale" for the coming weekend sales.

Enjoy!
CBODY67

 

[Just Carbs]

The Performer RPM turns on at 2400 rpm. And will improve power only from 2400 to 5000, unless you change the cam.
Change the cam to a low rpm high torque cam, keep the manifold and carb and get more torque from 1500 to 5000.
The idle will be just a tad rough but stable at 700.

 

[volksworld]

idk what car or engine you have but my performer 440 is a spread bore and requires an adapter plate to go back to a square bore carb...its also 5/8 of an inch taller than stock so the factory bracket mounts the accelerator cable too low...I welded a piece of flat stock into mine but there are aftermarket performance ones available I think from Mancini or Ehrenberg...the extra height put my air cleaner up into my new REM molded hood insulation...electric chokes close back up when you turn the car off and may cause hot starting issues cause they're closed when they don't need to be...

 

[CBODY67]

idk what car or engine you have but my performer 440 is a spread bore and requires an adapter plate to go back to a square bore carb...its also 5/8 of an inch taller than stock so the factory bracket mounts the accelerator cable too low...I welded a piece of flat stock into mine but there are adjustable aftermarket performance ones available I think from Mancini or Ehrenberg...the extra height put my air cleaner up into my new REM molded hood insulation...electric chokes close back up when you turn the car off and may cause hot starting issues cause they're closed when they don't need to be...

No adapter needed to use a square bore on a spreadbore-universal mounting flange. I used a thick insulator gasket, 4-hole, for years. Had enough engagement at the rear and enough thickness for it to not collapse. OEM 4-hole Chevy "truck Holley" gasket with 4 plastic inserts in the mounting stud holes. Used it for years that way.

The elec choke carbs I have bought new needed the choke thermostats leaned a notch or two to not stay on too long. Adjust the thermostat to barely close the choke at 68* F ambient (engine, carb, air around the carb underhood, "in the shade" temperature). That should allow the choke to operate as it should, not staying on too long and coming off cleanly.

IF the choke thermostat closes too soon after the car engine is stopped, that would mean the outside temp is quite cold to start with. Holley makes a Thermister to allegedly bettter-modulate choke use with a warmer engine, but when I tried it, didn't make much difference in the temps of this area, so I removed it.

Just my experiences,
CBODY67

 

[volksworld]

the carb bolts directly to the manifold...the "adapter" is just a flat 1/8 inch plate to cover up the wider areas of the spread bore hole...so yes your thick spacer gasket could accomplish the same thing

 

[James Romano]

I have a pure stock 383 in my 65 SF. I'm doing this mod because my original carb is just worn out. I've had it rebuilt twice and even the shop said it took a beating from the new gas. It's just time to make a change.

I'll go with the Performer, seems like the best choice. I have no intention to make this motor anything more than what it is. I would swap the cam and lifters if I needed to, but seems it's not really necessary.

 

[James Romano]

I can understand the desire for a newer-production era carburetor, for several reasons. More performance, IF you might be able to feel 7 or so flywheel horsepower, which decreases with power absorption of the other driveline items before it gets to the ground, to a probable 85%$ level.

So, rather than "seat of the pants" horsepower at 2500rpm, what you'll feel MIGHT be just a hair better off-idle throttle response and little more.

The basic Performer intake in normal bright aluminum can decrease weight, but also use the intake set with the paper gaskets (to go between the aluminum and steel valley pan gasket). Which was OEM for the 1969 6bbl 440 engines. Consider not reinstalling the "insulator" between the bottom of the intake manifold and valley pan, too, for better airflow under the intake.

Should be a factory "hard line" fuel line between the fuel filter and the carb. Might be available from some vendors as "Fine Lines" or similar, in the repro side of things. Just plain steel, which can be polished a bit with red Scotchbrite, rather than chrome.

As you know, the 1906 has an electric choke, which will need to be fine-tuned, as to thermostat adjustment, for your locale. There should be a hardware kit with the new manifold to plug the holes not needed for your application.

I'm presuming that as you are using an AFB-style carb, that means 1967 and prior model year, which also means the air cleaner mounting "hole" is of that size, which is smaller than similar Holley carbs and might be different than what your current air cleaner base is. So check that.

End result, other than the carb upgrade, NOT a lot of power to be gained with the aluminum intake over the existing OEM intake. At least not nearly enough to justify the cost of a new one, even "on sale" for the coming weekend sales.

Enjoy!
CBODY67

Great info from you as always. I will go over all the points you mentioned.

Yeah, I'm not looking for more punch out of the motor, just looking for it to run right. I had a lot of carbon and gunk all built up in the manifold, the carb has been rebuilt twice and was pointed out to me that its just worn out and eroded from cleaning/new gas and use.

I don't get good idle from it anymore, I've adjusted the living crap out of it as well as the timing, plugs...on and on. So it's time for a change. I just don't want to waste my time or money on stuff I don't need.

Thanks!