Choke settings

darth_linux

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So, after my distributor grenaded and caused all manner of bucking and stumbling, my choke settings are no longer what they used to be. My fast idle speed has changed and the choke plate seems to be closed too much, causing it to run like poo-poo on initial start.

I’ve made some adjustments to the fast idle screw, but with the choke plate misbehaving, it’s hard to get things working right. It gets better as it warms up.

My actual question, how did the choke settings get SO messed up following a severe timing/ignition issue? Is there some sort of valve in the carb that could have blown out?

1966 383 with Stromberg WWC 2bbl.
 
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Choke pull off could have stopped working, or become disconnected. It is to be hooked to manifold vacuum and the diaphragm pulls back when engine starts. This partially opens the choke plate so it is not too rich,
 
Choke pull off could have stopped working, or become disconnected. It is to be hooked to manifold vacuum and the diaphragm pulls back when engine starts. This partially opens the choke plate so it is not too rich,
I checked that yesterday with my vacuum pump and it was working. I’ll try to observe its function while the car is running. Thanks.

EDIT - it was moving under vacuum applied, but not HOLDING vacuum. So, it was indeed not working correctly.
 
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Might be best to re-check the complete system. Starting with a cold engine and such.

The choke plate should be gently closed at about 65* F, then pulled back open by the choke pull-off function. That "v-shaped" link is where that pull-off when cold dimension is adjusted. A wide blade screwdriver to widen the V, a pair of pliers to narrow the V (for a larger opening dimension).

With the choke fully closed, the fast idle screw should be near or on the top part of the fast idle cam, for that well-elevated fast idle rpm spec. To me, the rpm is a bit high, but might be necessary in very cold winter areas where the engine oil is colder and stiffer on that first start of the day. Of course, if you start the car with the accel pedal depressed 1/3, as soon as the engine starts, vac will pull the choke open for stable operation.

From this point, with the choke thermostat tweaked to just close the plate at 65*F AMBIENT, cold engine/underhood temps, I move to the fast idle speed screw. I usually set it so that the lowest fast idle cam speed is basically 700rpm (with the engine hot). With a cold engine, this can help the engine stay running in gear, if the other processes have warmed the engine a bit from dead cold. But not be too high to need additional brake pedal pressure at stops.

The health of the ign system can be an influence here, too! As to getting the engine fired-off quickly and run reliably during warm-up. Which can be one area the NGK V-Power plugs (or fine-wire Iridiums) can help, as the V-Powers state they can better-burn a leaner mixture (OEM Toyota NGK brochure, with graphs).

IF a bit learner (for temp and driving conditions) is desired, the "V" on the choke pull-off can be narrowed slightly. Same if it might need to be a bit richer, longer.

Of course, the basic choke thermostat in the INTAKE MANIFOLD needs to be set correctly for the basic calibration curve. Only thing is that with age, the springs can tighten, so setting them ONE NOTCH LEANER than spec can compensate for that nicely, as I discovered later on.

ALSO, the existence of exhaust gas heat in the intake manifold heat crossover passage is NECESSARY for all of these things to happen! Otherwise, the basic heat source for the choke to get heat is removed and waiting for heat migration into the intake manifold to heat the thermostat can result in slower choke operation. MUCH different if a replacement carb is used with an integral electric choke mechanism!

What I described above is what I did to get (what I considered) more optimum choke performance. Prototyped on our '66 Newport 383 2bbl Stromberg WWC3-263, in the earlier 1970s. Then used the procedure on the '72 Newport Royal 400 Holley 2210 2bbl, and later cars I own to great result. Including electric choke Holleys on non-Chrysler applications.

Key thing is that once the car starts, it stays running when put into gear, and can be driven normally past that, with base idle happening in about 4 blocks and a few stop signs, on a 30*F day. In one of my cars, I was using 20W-50 GTX in it at that time, so nothing thinner than 10W-30 should be needed.

I also used the 20rpm drop method to get to "lean best idle". As in getting the idle speed optimized, then turning the mixture screw to get a 20rpm drop from additional leanness, then going back to the higher rpm, with each screw.

Of course, I'm using a quality dwell-tach to set these things. It MIGHT be possible to adapt them to a vac gauge use, but to me, that would not really allow quite the precision of a dwell tach, by observation. Still, from the max vac reading, getting it to drop from additional leanness can be observed in the same manner.

Adjust and tweak. Just my experiences,
CBODY67
 
Might be best to re-check the complete system. Starting with a cold engine and such.

The choke plate should be gently closed at about 65* F, then pulled back open by the choke pull-off function. That "v-shaped" link is where that pull-off when cold dimension is adjusted. A wide blade screwdriver to widen the V, a pair of pliers to narrow the V (for a larger opening dimension).

With the choke fully closed, the fast idle screw should be near or on the top part of the fast idle cam, for that well-elevated fast idle rpm spec. To me, the rpm is a bit high, but might be necessary in very cold winter areas where the engine oil is colder and stiffer on that first start of the day. Of course, if you start the car with the accel pedal depressed 1/3, as soon as the engine starts, vac will pull the choke open for stable operation.

From this point, with the choke thermostat tweaked to just close the plate at 65*F AMBIENT, cold engine/underhood temps, I move to the fast idle speed screw. I usually set it so that the lowest fast idle cam speed is basically 700rpm (with the engine hot). With a cold engine, this can help the engine stay running in gear, if the other processes have warmed the engine a bit from dead cold. But not be too high to need additional brake pedal pressure at stops.

The health of the ign system can be an influence here, too! As to getting the engine fired-off quickly and run reliably during warm-up. Which can be one area the NGK V-Power plugs (or fine-wire Iridiums) can help, as the V-Powers state they can better-burn a leaner mixture (OEM Toyota NGK brochure, with graphs).

IF a bit learner (for temp and driving conditions) is desired, the "V" on the choke pull-off can be narrowed slightly. Same if it might need to be a bit richer, longer.

Of course, the basic choke thermostat in the INTAKE MANIFOLD needs to be set correctly for the basic calibration curve. Only thing is that with age, the springs can tighten, so setting them ONE NOTCH LEANER than spec can compensate for that nicely, as I discovered later on.

ALSO, the existence of exhaust gas heat in the intake manifold heat crossover passage is NECESSARY for all of these things to happen! Otherwise, the basic heat source for the choke to get heat is removed and waiting for heat migration into the intake manifold to heat the thermostat can result in slower choke operation. MUCH different if a replacement carb is used with an integral electric choke mechanism!

What I described above is what I did to get (what I considered) more optimum choke performance. Prototyped on our '66 Newport 383 2bbl Stromberg WWC3-263, in the earlier 1970s. Then used the procedure on the '72 Newport Royal 400 Holley 2210 2bbl, and later cars I own to great result. Including electric choke Holleys on non-Chrysler applications.

Key thing is that once the car starts, it stays running when put into gear, and can be driven normally past that, with base idle happening in about 4 blocks and a few stop signs, on a 30*F day. In one of my cars, I was using 20W-50 GTX in it at that time, so nothing thinner than 10W-30 should be needed.

I also used the 20rpm drop method to get to "lean best idle". As in getting the idle speed optimized, then turning the mixture screw to get a 20rpm drop from additional leanness, then going back to the higher rpm, with each screw.

Of course, I'm using a quality dwell-tach to set these things. It MIGHT be possible to adapt them to a vac gauge use, but to me, that would not really allow quite the precision of a dwell tach, by observation. Still, from the max vac reading, getting it to drop from additional leanness can be observed in the same manner.

Adjust and tweak. Just my experiences,
CBODY67
So I did a check on my choke pull-off and it failed the test procedure (it would not hold vacuum for 10 seconds). Interesting, since it was working fine 2 years ago when I rebuilt the carb. I was surprised it worked as well as it did then, so I guess I got lucky. I've ordered a replacement from eBay that I found. Looks to be NOS aftermarket equipment from the 80s maybe . . . we'll find out when it arrives and I give it the old squeeze and plug test.

More interestingly, I removed the choke thermo-spring assembly to check it, and found it was almost all the way towards the "rich" setting. I gave it a good spritzing of carb cleaner to get the goo off, and set it one tick left of center, towards the "lean" side. Put it back together, checked fast idle cam/screw engagement and air gap with the choke valve and fired it up. Instantly better. It should be perfect with the new choke pull off.

Probably what was happening is that the choke was SO rich it was flooding the engine upon cold start and soaking the plugs with gas as it tried to get on it's feet, hence the loping and mis-firing.

Not sure why it was fine before my distributor woes, but it's getting sorted out now.

Thanks for all of the tips!
 
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