Collector's Auto Supply Rear Shocks?

[73Coupe]

Time to tell a story about manufacturing....

I used to have a customer where I go into work a couple times a year. Nice place, clean and cool, my two biggest comforts when working in factories.

They made laundry soap in the large factory in the front, but my customer was actually in the rear of the building, where the soap was packaged into plastic bottles made on site.

It was an American company that made the soap, but a German owned company owned the bottling plant.

There were two or three bottling lines... Colored plastic pellets were melted and then the plastic was blow molded with the labels as part of the molding process (fascinating stuff). It went down the line and the pipes from the soap plant in the front filled the new bottles. From there, it went off to be boxed. All on the same line.

Most laundry detergents that I could think of were made there... and some I didn't know. All on the same line... Just switch out the colors, labels and boxes. I couldn't tell you if the pipes delivered the same soap or not... Probably did, or maybe just a color switch... LOL. Only they knew and I knew better than to ask. A least a dozen different laundry soap came off those two or three lines.

The parent company had cameras all over the place too. Everything was monitored on the other side of the world, but I digress.

Point is... You never know where anything is made and who makes it. I wouldn't be surprised if Monroe made shocks for Sachs... Or KYB... Or the other way around. Much of this car stuff difference amounts to paint and boxes, just like the laundry detergent is just the bottle and label. You never know who owns the company that makes the product for the American company either...

I suppose if it weren't for the cameras, you would have been trying to get some C-body washer reservoirs blow-molded there for us?

 

[polara71]

Thanx for confirming my doubts regarding this parasitic flipper company! The question remains unanswered though: WHO MAKES THOSE SHOCK ABSORBERS? I CONCUR FULLY with folks here regarding the price of these being in the Absurdosphere, but would like to know where the sweat and blood gets squeezed and baked into shock absorbers. I almost certainly am going to buy a pair of KYB Gas-A-Just monotube shocks to use with the new springs, regardless of the answer but like to know this sort of lore in case a truly compelling rationale for putting big shocks on arises.

Without seeing the offerings I presume for the money you are getting NOS or NORS stuff made in the States.

Parasitic? I don't look at them as that. Much of their stuff I had trouble finding but they knew where it was. If a finders fee is required, I don't mind paying it.

 

[Big_John]

I suppose if it weren't for the cameras, you would have been trying to get some C-body washer reservoirs blow-molded there for us?

LOL...

It would have to say "Mopar Laundry Soap" on it.

 

[Gerald Morris]

Time to tell a story about manufacturing....

I used to have a customer where I go into work a couple times a year. Nice place, clean and cool, my two biggest comforts when working in factories.

They made laundry soap in the large factory in the front, but my customer was actually in the rear of the building, where the soap was packaged into plastic bottles made on site.

It was an American company that made the soap, but a German owned company owned the bottling plant.

There were two or three bottling lines... Colored plastic pellets were melted and then the plastic was blow molded with the labels as part of the molding process (fascinating stuff). It went down the line and the pipes from the soap plant in the front filled the new bottles. From there, it went off to be boxed. All on the same line.

Most laundry detergents that I could think of were made there... and some I didn't know. All on the same line... Just switch out the colors, labels and boxes. I couldn't tell you if the pipes delivered the same soap or not... Probably did, or maybe just a color switch... LOL. Only they knew and I knew better than to ask. A least a dozen different laundry soap came off those two or three lines.

The parent company had cameras all over the place too. Everything was monitored on the other side of the world, but I digress.

Point is... You never know where anything is made and who makes it. I wouldn't be surprised if Monroe made shocks for Sachs... Or KYB... Or the other way around. Much of this car stuff difference amounts to paint and boxes, just like the laundry detergent is just the bottle and label. You never know who owns the company that makes the product for the American company either...

WISE WORDS BIG JOHN!!! The case of Johnson Controls auto batteries illustrates your point most concretely.

My greatest concern w.r.t. who makes a product focuses on the folk on the production floor. There the work ethics, education, relative proletarian welfare and motivations decide much of product quality. Many folk on this planet CAN THEORETICALLY make good quality products but don't, due to the demoralizing conditions they're coerced to work under. One of my favorite examples, now a little aged, but still illustrative is how Foxconn, maker of innumerable motherboards and other system boards had a MAJOR workforce disciplinary problem with TOO MANY PRODUCTION WORKERS COMMITTING SUICIDE ON THE FLOOR! Bad for Business! Apple Computer, among other Foxconn customers had to step in and instruct the Chinese management in how to improve worker-management relations. So much for the Glories of Proletarian Dictatorship in the Middle Kingdom. Now workers have been persuaded to commit suicide off company grounds to a degree sufficient to carry on trade with more sensitive customers. I've even seen genuine LAWS AGAINST SUTTE IN INDIA. AND ANTI-CRUELTY STATUTES WHERE HUSBANDS GET SENT TO PRISON FOR WHOLE MONTHS for dousing their women in kerosene or petrol and lighting them up. Ah, such a PARAGON OF PROGRESS AND DEMOCRACY THAT INDIA IS!

I don't look for the quality of steel made in either of these countries to improve too much. Too many uppity workers offing their bad selves on the job, and snotty beechez refusing to decently remove themselves when their dowry ought to be paid. **** just burns me up!

 

[Gerald Morris]

Ouch Gerry! I totally get supporting Made in USA but I just put 4 KYBs on Betty White for $140. It smoothed her out big time, especially since the ones I removed were from the early 70's. I never had good luck with longevity of Monroe/Gabriel. The way I justified it is: except for that one time, the Japanese have always been cool with us.

I like Nihon no keiretsu,, hai, suki desu neh! Their quality generally is acceptable, though I prefer when possible OLD U.S. Union Made stuff. I also look for stuff from Germany, Scandanavia, Britain, et al. Russian steel is VERY GOOD too, BTW.

For our 50 yr old Mopars, NOS often works , though when volatile substances get involved, I shop for MODERN materials. Hydraulic/pneumatic stuff depends on volatiles in the seals, and often the oils too, so KYB stands as my Most Likely source for shocks.

 

[CBODY67]

I would buy these:

Chrysler Newport, Chrysler New Yorker, Chrysler Imperial, Dodge Monaco & Plymouth Fury - Rear Shock Absorber

Now, what about KONIs for the front?? That quoted price seems a bit high, compared to other applications, though.

IF you read all of the supplied information from several name-brand of shocks, it seems that they all have the same guts, just different ways to talk about them. Such that THEIR shock absorber is superior to the others like it. Some creative dialogue, to me! Which might support the notion that they are all mostly the same, just different exterior paint and labels?

Monroe was the premier shock absorber brand in the '50s and later, PLUS the OEM supplier to Chrysler, back then, too. Their old Super 500 HD shocks were very good, but in modern times, from what I've heard about that brand, not sure what valving they are now using or how well it might match what we had back then.

In the mean time, I'm glad that what I have was built back in the '80s or earlier.

Enjoy!
CBODY67

 

[Gerald Morris]

Now, what about KONIs for the front?? That quoted price seems a bit high, compared to other applications, though.

IF you read all of the supplied information from several name-brand of shocks, it seems that they all have the same guts, just different ways to talk about them. Such that THEIR shock absorber is superior to the others like it. Some creative dialogue, to me! Which might support the notion that they are all mostly the same, just different exterior paint and labels?

Monroe was the premier shock absorber brand in the '50s and later, PLUS the OEM supplier to Chrysler, back then, too. Their old Super 500 HD shocks were very good, but in modern times, from what I've heard about that brand, not sure what valving they are now using or how well it might match what we had back then.

In the mean time, I'm glad that what I have was built back in the '80s or earlier.

Enjoy!
CBODY67

Reading, pricing and all, I've arrived at getting KYB Gas-A-Just for the rear. They're modestly priced and VERY WELL thought of by drivers of C body Mopars and Imperials. The Monroe Load levellers STILL are decent shocks BTW. I used them on my 1970 Mach 1, way back when, and they've served admirably on Mathilda. I ordered my springs over-arched by 2" to allow for the evil roads and larger tires we use to compensate for them, so suspect the KYBs will do. The ONE thing I saw about Koni that I LIKE is the ability to adjust them. But I REALLY DON'T NEED another variable I can diddle up in my suspension, so, KYB wins.

 

[330dTA]

Now, what about KONIs for the front?...

The original '65-'73 C-body KONI front shock, part #80-1742 is obsolete. You can't get them anywhere. But as you may recall, I had a pair modified out of Porsche 356 front shocks, which have very similar characteristics. Almost same performance figures. And as you may recall, I had them all (the Oriflow's, the KYB's and the KONI's) tested in a shock dyno. Just to be sure. And I respectfully disagree: the shocks are not the same. KYB was inferior in the dyno. Original C-body KONI's are similar to original Chrysler Oriflows. Only more durable, and adjustable (to counter the aging of the shock, not to make it more sporty!).

You may read more about it here:
Front shocks, Sensa-Trac or Gas-a-Just?

Here you have the dyno sheets:
67' 300 Shocks

 

[Ripinator]

THANK YOU for reminding me of Koni! I've read of these, but never had occasion to buy or try them. I'll look into these a bit more, see if I can find some comparative studies, but most likely will get the KYBs, as best bang for the buck, UNLESS I find something REALLY compelling.

I used KYBs on both of my '66 300s. Very controlled and comfortable ride. KONIs are great shocks for a sports car, they are VERY firm.

 

[3175375]

The original '65-'73 C-body KONI front shock, part #80-1742 is obsolete. You can't get them anywhere. But as you may recall, I had a pair modified out of Porsche 356 front shocks, which have very similar characteristics. Almost same performance figures. And as you may recall, I had them all (the Oriflow's, the KYB's and the KONI's) tested in a shock dyno. Just to be sure. And I respectfully disagree: the shocks are not the same. KYB was inferior in the dyno. Original C-body KONI's are similar to original Chrysler Oriflows. Only more durable, and adjustable (to counter the aging of the shock, not to make it more sporty!).
View attachment 452157

You may read more about it here:
Front shocks, Sensa-Trac or Gas-a-Just?

Here you have the dyno sheets:
67' 300 Shocks

I would be surprised if the valving in the 356 shock was even close to the C body shock, as the 2 vehicles differ greatly in weight, but they may be closer than I think...

 

[USSMOPAR]

Thank you 330dTA for your work. No matter what some one comes along to be nit picky even thought real world technical data was provided.

To the naysayers and cheap seats - See the graphs and below of course the data shows the valving to be little different but the barge will never know the 11lb difference.

Koni # 80-1742: 168 lbs bounce - 449 lbs rebounce (OE replacement, heavy duty shock. Obsolete.)
Koni # 80-1011: 168 lbs bounce - 460 lbs rebounce (Porsche 356 shock, in production.)

Don't be cheap.

 

[CBODY67]

To clarify, the shocks I was referring to as "possibly the same" would be the replacement aftermarket shocks of the "normal" construction in "normal" brands, which is not the monotube shocks or KONIs. One reason for this suspicion is that they all talk about their "advanced speed-sensitive valving", in one way or another. As all shocks have had speed-sensitive valving for decades!

The adjustability of the KONIs can be more than just for extended durability, but to also tune things to one's liking. From my experiences with them on my '77 Camaro F41/WS-6, the base setting (as produced) is on the softer side of things. About 1 turn tighter, things get better and then the durability issues can become operative. Key thing seems to be to use them at the base setting for "break-in" and then adjust as desired. I tried one set adjusted when new and they didn't seem to be a long-lasting in that adjustment.

I also discovered that the KONI valving can be "tire relative". With two sets of Pirelli P77s, the car felt more Caprice-ish than Z/28. It appears that the rubber in the Pirellis absorbed more of the little stuff that made the KONIs think they were on smooooth Interstate all of the time, at any adjustment. A set of BFG Radial T/As got that gutsy feeling back with a good ride in normal driving, with the adjustments working again. Once, when pacing a Lexus on the Interstate, my Camaro matched the Lexus sedan in movements as we drove over some gradual dips, but the beauty of the KONI valving is that when things got rougher, they stiffened up immediately for the situation (with the BFGs).

But I also noticed similar things with factory GM items on late-'90s MonteCarlos. I drove several in our loan car fleet, when they were new. The most-used tire was the Eagle GA, back then. The car felt sporty, but when a big dip or such was encountered, the sportiness vanished as the bump stops were used. I drove one with the BFG Touring T/As and it was all different, feeling more linerar and "as expected", which I enjoyed more. FWIW

Curiously, what might the cost for a set of the Porsche shocks for the front of a C-body be?

Just some experiences,
CBODY67

 

[Gerald Morris]

The original '65-'73 C-body KONI front shock, part #80-1742 is obsolete. You can't get them anywhere. But as you may recall, I had a pair modified out of Porsche 356 front shocks, which have very similar characteristics. Almost same performance figures. And as you may recall, I had them all (the Oriflow's, the KYB's and the KONI's) tested in a shock dyno. Just to be sure. And I respectfully disagree: the shocks are not the same. KYB was inferior in the dyno. Original C-body KONI's are similar to original Chrysler Oriflows. Only more durable, and adjustable (to counter the aging of the shock, not to make it more sporty!).
View attachment 452157

You may read more about it here:
Front shocks, Sensa-Trac or Gas-a-Just?

Here you have the dyno sheets:
67' 300 Shocks

THANK YOU! I'll look around for some appropriate Konis for the rear, see what sorts of prices I can get. I LOVE rigorous quantification of quality!

 

[Gerald Morris]

Thank you 330dTA for your work. No matter what some one comes along to be nit picky even thought real world technical data was provided.

To the naysayers and cheap seats - See the graphs and below of course the data shows the valving to be little different but the barge will never know the 11lb difference.

Koni # 80-1742: 168 lbs bounce - 449 lbs rebounce (OE replacement, heavy duty shock. Obsolete.)
Koni # 80-1011: 168 lbs bounce - 460 lbs rebounce (Porsche 356 shock, in production.)

Don't be cheap.

Right ON! I make it a point to get the best stuff I can, with the $ I have, knowing full well that cheap short-term nigh invariably COSTS MORE long term. This doesn't mean I go buy the highest priced stuff I can find and call it good however. The Konis look promising, and I liked the sale price I saw.

 

[CBODY67]

When I first ventured into KONI-land for the Camaro, I came to realize that as I called vendor adds in the back of magazines, that many I called were only selling out of a distributor's inventory, with extended delivery dates as a result. Even for what I suspected to be a popular application. Finding an "in-stock, ships today" vendor can be important, by observation, as that's much closer to the stocking warehouse than not.

I suspect the difference in my shopping activities for KONIs, as to ready availability, is that any C-body shock might have to come from a KONI master-warehouse situation, due to their lower sales levels. Which makes the referenced rear shock "sale" a possible "warehouse closeout" in disguise. BUT one that we might partake of?

The good thing is that they did honor their "lifetime warranty", as long as you have the paperwork. At least back then. BUT things might be different for a more-popular application than a low-volume "we don't sell that anymore" item?

Just some thoughts,
CBODY67

 

[Gerald Morris]

When I first ventured into KONI-land for the Camaro, I came to realize that as I called vendor adds in the back of magazines, that many I called were only selling out of a distributor's inventory, with extended delivery dates as a result. Even for what I suspected to be a popular application. Finding an "in-stock, ships today" vendor can be important, by observation, as that's much closer to the stocking warehouse than not.

I suspect the difference in my shopping activities for KONIs, as to ready availability, is that any C-body shock might have to come from a KONI master-warehouse situation, due to their lower sales levels. Which makes the referenced rear shock "sale" a possible "warehouse closeout" in disguise. BUT one that we might partake of?

The good thing is that they did honor their "lifetime warranty", as long as you have the paperwork. At least back then. BUT things might be different for a more-popular application than a low-volume "we don't sell that anymore" item?

Just some thoughts,
CBODY67

Those are VERY GOOD thoughts to weigh in the balance. I've looked around now at stuff ranging from old Delco Pleasurizers (modest price, attractive), Genuine Oriflo OEM shocks, (outrageous price!), Armstrong (didn't know they did shocks), Bilstein (upper reaches of absurdosphere), Koni (tantalizing but limited sources) and of course KYB and Rare Parts. After more digging, I've found that the stuff sold by Collector's Auto Supply is made by the Rare Parts "in house" facility. That bodes well for the quality of the product, but they're DAMNED EXPENSIVE, to be sure.

I LIKE the sale price on the Koni's! I don't mind throwing down $80 each on them, as they're adjustable and well warranted. I noticed ONE thing UNIQUE about this brand: PEOPLE PAY GOOD MONEY EVEN FOR SECOND HAND SHOCKS WITH THIS BRAND! THAT perhaps more than anything else I've read about them tells MUCH about that brand: VERY DESIRABLE!

Still, we're running KYBs up front, and likely will for the foreseeable future. They're quite good for the in town, barrio hovel paths AND freeway driving. Since I'm spending the Babushka's hard earned money on Mathilda, I've consulted her directly. She favors the Konis, in keeping with our "don't stint on Quality" policy for our Family. If I see that some adjustable shock can be had for the front, when the KYBs currently doing duty wear out, I'll get some for the front. I'm going to get the rear in order before my next round of rebuilding the front end. I KNEW the cheap stuff I got from Utah 5 yrs ago wouldn't last long, but its still doing alright, for now....

 

[Gerald Morris]

I used KYBs on both of my '66 300s. Very controlled and comfortable ride. KONIs are great shocks for a sports car, they are VERY firm.

I'm going to find out how well they do for rear end shocks. I use Mathilda like a pickup truck at times, and have seen the Koni brand gets rave reviews there. I LIKE adjust-ability big BIG TIME! Mind you, I'll NEVER waste a dime on air shocks again. I've found, regardless of brand, that air shocks adjust to either FULL, or, EMPTY, usually the latter in a matter of minutes, if not seconds. That **** GETS OLD!

I'm VERY happy with the KYB Gas-A-Just for the front. Were these Koni's not on sale, I likely would have, reluctantly, passed them by, but at $80 apiece, they're just too damned good to refuse.

 

[73Coupe]

The original '65-'73 C-body KONI front shock, part #80-1742 is obsolete. You can't get them anywhere. But as you may recall, I had a pair modified out of Porsche 356 front shocks, which have very similar characteristics. Almost same performance figures. And as you may recall, I had them all (the Oriflow's, the KYB's and the KONI's) tested in a shock dyno. Just to be sure. And I respectfully disagree: the shocks are not the same. KYB was inferior in the dyno. Original C-body KONI's are similar to original Chrysler Oriflows. Only more durable, and adjustable (to counter the aging of the shock, not to make it more sporty!).
View attachment 452157

You may read more about it here:
Front shocks, Sensa-Trac or Gas-a-Just?

Here you have the dyno sheets:
67' 300 Shocks

Thanks for the info! What mods did you do to the Koni 356 shocks?

 

[73Coupe]

Thank you 330dTA for your work. No matter what some one comes along to be nit picky even thought real world technical data was provided.

To the naysayers and cheap seats - See the graphs and below of course the data shows the valving to be little different but the barge will never know the 11lb difference.

Koni # 80-1742: 168 lbs bounce - 449 lbs rebounce (OE replacement, heavy duty shock. Obsolete.)
Koni # 80-1011: 168 lbs bounce - 460 lbs rebounce (Porsche 356 shock, in production.)

Don't be cheap.

Don't urinate all over the conversation. It has been positive so far....

 

[Gerald Morris]

Follow-up!
From Classic Garage, today:

classicgarage.com <classicgarageorders@yahoo.com>
9:58 AM (13 hours ago)

to (Yours Truly)

Thank you for placing an order with classicgarage.com.
We are terribly sorry but we only have 1 of these shocks remaining and are therefore unable to fill your order. They are long discontinued by Koni.
We have cancelled your order and refunded your Paypal.
Terribly sorry for the inconvenience.

Be sure to include all messages with any reply!
​

These folks promptly refunded my money, for which I thank them. At this point, St. Joe clearly has interceded and told me to stick with what I know to work.

"The Road to Hell is paved with Good Intentions"---Hindu proverb, oft quoted by others.

KYB it WILL BE. Deo gratias. Deus laus.