The_Eagles’_Nest
Well-Known Member
The cap is a NEW NOS cap! Spark plug wires are NEW NOS!
Of course it has spark.
Crank no start 1972 440
- Thread starter The_Eagles’_Nest
- Start date
Of course it has spark.
@Imperial_Eagle_72 -- did you triple-check so as to rule out what @Big_John and @volksworld suggest may have happened?
The_Eagles’_Nest
Well-Known Member
The distributor has never been removed from the engine. I have not gotten to the front of the engine yet. Firing order is correct. Wires are positioned correctly on distributor cap. I had to do an oil change first. The oil was thick and chunky. I will not run the engine that way.
marty koirtyohann
Well-Known Member
ISIT IN TIME ? HAS THE CHAIN STREACHED OR HAS IT JUMPED TIME IF IT HAS MORE THAN 90K ON THE CHAIN IT MAY NOT HURT TO CHECK THE CHAIN TO C IF ITS STILL IN TIME
When you say "The cap is a NEW NOS cap! Spark plug wires are NEW NOS! Of course it has spark"... have you actually verified a clear strong blue spark when cranking, or are you just assuming it should have spark because those parts are new and installed?
VERIFY
An engine needs three things to run:
Fuel, air, & properly timed spark.
As noted before by other posters, verify those things 100%. The trouble shoot what's missing.
1) No fuel? Start at the fuel pump and work towards the carb to see if fuel is getting to the combustion chamber.
VERIFY
2) No air? Hard to not have air... but...
VERIFY
3) No spark? Start at the spark plug (grounded to engine to see spark), and work towards diz and coil. Coil won't operate without key on 12V... Coil 12V can be shorting out against engine due to old wiring insulation. Coil won't fire if diz does not send appropriate signal... Diz won't send signal to coil if rotor/points/other parts aren't set to spec. (This is old style points ignition talk - same applies with an electronic ignition system, but the module must be a known working unit, properly hooked up. Don't assume, VERIFY).
Once you verify all 3 things above and the variables they can have, then timing is the next key step... you must verify TDC at #1 cylinder, and time ignition accordingly.
Good luck.
VERIFY
An engine needs three things to run:
Fuel, air, & properly timed spark.
As noted before by other posters, verify those things 100%. The trouble shoot what's missing.
1) No fuel? Start at the fuel pump and work towards the carb to see if fuel is getting to the combustion chamber.
VERIFY
2) No air? Hard to not have air... but...
VERIFY
3) No spark? Start at the spark plug (grounded to engine to see spark), and work towards diz and coil. Coil won't operate without key on 12V... Coil 12V can be shorting out against engine due to old wiring insulation. Coil won't fire if diz does not send appropriate signal... Diz won't send signal to coil if rotor/points/other parts aren't set to spec. (This is old style points ignition talk - same applies with an electronic ignition system, but the module must be a known working unit, properly hooked up. Don't assume, VERIFY).
Once you verify all 3 things above and the variables they can have, then timing is the next key step... you must verify TDC at #1 cylinder, and time ignition accordingly.
Good luck.
The_Eagles’_Nest
Well-Known Member
It’s capitalized because I have said it over and over again and people still seem to come up with the same crap. Seems like no one reads the post and just throws in their two cents without READING!
Everything has been verified. I wouldn’t have a reason to lie to anyone about it because it doesn’t affect anyone who replies. You assume I’m lying to everyone and I don’t appreciate it.
You know what... Several of us have asked IF YOU VERIFIED that #1 plug wire is in the correct spot at TDC (top dead center) on the compression stroke.
You've been clinging to the "#7 wire" nonsense and not even considering or at least responding by saying "I checked #1 at TDC on the compression stroke".
Now you're getting pissed at us for trying to help... SMH...
I could help you to figure out how to find TDC on the compression stroke... It's pretty easy... But why bother? I don't think you aren't going to do it anyway....
The_Eagles’_Nest
Well-Known Member
Who’s pissed?
I guess you guys can’t read that I am doing things when I can. I still have plenty to do and you act as if I don’t drop what I’m doing and do as you say the world will end.
Hey pal - just trying to help. No one's saying you're lying, least of all me. No one is pissed off, we're just baffled as to the approach you're taking to the free and generous amount of help here.
All I was doing was asking questions that I couldn't answer (for whatever reasons) from the entire thread. The COMPLETE THREAD from front to back. For example, you have never said that you saw a clear strong spark. That doesn't help us answer the question that you've verified the spark.
As well, my advice was based upon instructions given to me over the years by seasoned experienced people when I've had similar problems, be it with mechanical car related stuff, electronics, sound design, music, medical, WHATEVER. The instructions still stand on their own, whomever is delivering the message, and whatever subject one is dealing with. Verify. Start at the beginning and move to towards the end. Fix and repair along that line.
Simple.
If you can't accept the help and choose to bite the hand that you for help from, so be it. You're on your own.
Again, good luck you.
All I was doing was asking questions that I couldn't answer (for whatever reasons) from the entire thread. The COMPLETE THREAD from front to back. For example, you have never said that you saw a clear strong spark. That doesn't help us answer the question that you've verified the spark.
As well, my advice was based upon instructions given to me over the years by seasoned experienced people when I've had similar problems, be it with mechanical car related stuff, electronics, sound design, music, medical, WHATEVER. The instructions still stand on their own, whomever is delivering the message, and whatever subject one is dealing with. Verify. Start at the beginning and move to towards the end. Fix and repair along that line.
Simple.
If you can't accept the help and choose to bite the hand that you for help from, so be it. You're on your own.
Again, good luck you.
What folks are trying to tell you is that there is an order in which things ought to be checked. They are trying to save you time and frustration, not just to drop everything and do things their way.
John and Ross (and several others who have chimed in) have decades of experience fixing things on cars like yours or mine, and they are nice enough to take the time to read and answer your and many members' posts, sharing what they know to work with folks like you or me (I have neither their experience nor their ability in this realm).
FWIW, I have saved a lot of time, money, and aggravation by listening to their advice. I did not know much when I started, but they still took the time to educate me. Sometimes, I probably looked like a fool or an ignoramus: that is fine with me, as long as I learned I don't mind in the least.
Good luck, and I hope to see you at Volo!
The_Eagles’_Nest
Well-Known Member
That’s great and all and I appreciate suggestions but when 10 people tell me to replace the distributor cap or to check for something I have already done that I said I did, who wouldn’t get exasperated? I said what I did, and I just share that I am changing oil and doing spark plugs and people go ballistic that I don’t listen to them.
Nothing baffling about my methods so I have no idea where anyone gets off saying that. I can admit I’m going for low hanging fruit but who wouldn’t?
I never said I wouldn’t do what was suggested, I said I would get around to it when I can. Then people get the impression I’m pissed when I’m just stating what I’m up to.
Nothing baffling about my methods so I have no idea where anyone gets off saying that. I can admit I’m going for low hanging fruit but who wouldn’t?
I never said I wouldn’t do what was suggested, I said I would get around to it when I can. Then people get the impression I’m pissed when I’m just stating what I’m up to.
rags
Senior Member
add compression. had a four cylinder engine that wouldn't develop compression due to a clogged cat. had a packard straight 8 that wouldn't fire because the rings were washed. spoonful of oil in each cylinder fixed that. looked like the building was on fire when it lit off. all kinds of f'd up things happen.
rags
Senior Member
never. not once.
Lol! I can imagine. And yes, you're right, compression is required, thanks for the reminder.
That for me would be a "Step 4" if Steps 1-3 had been verified with no results. Mind you, most engines will have some compression, even if not in all 8...
rags
Senior Member
that packard 8 was a fresh rebuilt that had been driven but then sat for a couple of years. others were working on it trying to get it to fire to use in a parade. nothing. not out the intake, the exhaust, nothing. well i'll fix this... seen way to many parts get replaced trying to fix misfires because people don't check compression. gotten to the point of where it's my first consideration.
marty koirtyohann
Well-Known Member
a 1972 would not have a cat on iyt & as for tye packard 8 & the washed out rings? if the rings r not sealing & have no compression . yes that would keep it from starting . in that case the motor needs to be rebuilt in my opinion & with that im done
The_Eagles’_Nest
Well-Known Member
I got the radiator out of the car. I will be checking TDC next weekend and preparing to do a water pump if necessary.
marty koirtyohann
Well-Known Member
just a bit of advice if u change he water pump it would be a good idea to replace the silent timing chain with a double row type it will save u a ton of headaches the future. .
i did that on my 72,440 bu i didnt change he timing chain & 3000 miles more it threw the chain . the motor bent every valve but 3 & the 1972, 440 is a low compression motor . & it still bent the values . the 440 had 133k on it. if i had changed the timing set i would no had to rebuild the 440
'66 Fury I
Active Member
While I agree with the good advise given here, let me tell you what happened to me about 45 years ago.
I had a 63 Windsor, with a tired 383. A friend had it out and he called to tell me the timing chain had jumped. He said a "mechanic" had checked it out. We towed the car home and when I was changing the very loose chain, I realized it had not jumped. In the end I learned that the engine had been flooded and the cylinder walls washed down. Solution was to remove the plugs, squirt some engine oil in each cylinder, spin the engine and install the plugs. The engine then started and, after the oil smoke cleared, it ran well.
Just in case it might be useful. Lindsay
I had a 63 Windsor, with a tired 383. A friend had it out and he called to tell me the timing chain had jumped. He said a "mechanic" had checked it out. We towed the car home and when I was changing the very loose chain, I realized it had not jumped. In the end I learned that the engine had been flooded and the cylinder walls washed down. Solution was to remove the plugs, squirt some engine oil in each cylinder, spin the engine and install the plugs. The engine then started and, after the oil smoke cleared, it ran well.
Just in case it might be useful. Lindsay
rags
Senior Member
engine was rebuilt. if it had 500 miles on it i'd be impressed.
this exactly. thank you.
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