years ago i rebuilt the suspension including torsion bars and sent it into alignment shop--- i ask for the torsion bars to be adjusted too-----car drove like crap---shop claimed i had put the parts on---my buddy and i figured one torsion bar was holding up the whole front end--the other was just along for the ride---the car drove like a tricycle------so both us 60+old guys laid on our bellys and got the car adjusted by the book.....
diving in turns
- Thread starter swisherred
- Start date
twostick
Senior Member
Mopars are hard to get any positive caster out of at the best of times. A Mopar experienced front end tech will first jack in as much positive caster as it will give him and then hope there is some left after setting the camber and toe.
You can use the problem solver Moog upper control arm bushings to get some more caster adjustability but they have to be installed 90 degrees to what the instructions say IIRC. Google is your friend for the exact procedure to use them to gain caster instead of camber, which was there intended purpose even tho camber is not an issue on a Mopar.
Kevin
Try try this thread. I tried to do a decent job explaining the system and my observations. I did find that the factory spec for toe in for bias tires did create a little tendency to follow road ridges or cracks. At zero or near zero that went away. Keep in my steering box is fresh with new bearings seals and adjusted back to factory specs. Like every other thread it does go off topic and wanders back. Also I have a tendency to get way down in the details explaining what adjustments affect what.
‘68 Polara Alignment by the book
‘68 Polara Alignment by the book
I would caution against chasing the 'dead in the middle' feeling first. That is a symptom of the tech in our cars - even at their best these boxes have some dead space compared to the modern cars we drive around the rest of the time. To me the fact that it then overacts is more telling than the dead spot. Certainly the box might need adjustment, but get the alignment sorted first. Then you can have a helper observe any slack in the joints in the system as you steer back and forth in the driveway.
bigmoparjeff
Senior Member
How did it drive before all this work was done compared to now?
Jeff
Jeff
69 300 vert
Well-Known Member
I have to ask, what exactly is "extra adjusting"?
I have put a car back on the rack to get the steering wheel straight, maybe three times once. That's the only extra adjusting I can imagine, but that's my fault for not getting it straight the first time. On rare occasions one would come back complaining about crooked steering wheel.
Whether it's shims, sliding control arms or eccentrics, it's all the same work. Setting toe is easy, getting the wheel straight a bit of an art.
edit: I reviewed your printout, caster camber and toe. I see nothing abnormal about the before or afters. I call ripoff on the extra charge, I think that's because they're used to struts, not control arms and wanted more money. 2¢
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bigmoparjeff
Senior Member
Or it's as close to spec as he could get it. Chrysler did not do a very good job jigging the stub frames for the 1965 to 1973 C bodies. It's actually quite rare to find one that you can set both sides even and right on spec, especially if your trying to set it up for radial tires. As luck would have it, most of the time the side you do first will go where you want it and the second side won't even be close, so then you have to go back and redo the first one to make both sides even enough to avoid a pull. You can fine tune them by using the offset upper control arm bushings, but to do that properly you need to try to align it first with the standard bushings to determine how close you can get it to where you want it and that will tell you how to clock the bushings to get it the rest of the way.
One big problem with the computer alignment rigs is the specs will be for bias ply tires. The specs on 3C's & a D?'s print out are for bias ply tires, and that's exactly how the guy doing the alignment set the car. Looks like he was shooting for midway on everything, which would be the preferred spec. Another issue is that you're supposed to have the engine running when you set the toe on Chrysler products with their usual steering box. Most computer alignment rigs don't like that because it vibrates the sensor heads, especially if the car has an HP cam in it. With the engine off, you can chase the toe from side to side forever, trying to get the wheel centered. I suspect that's what may have been going on with Swisherred's car and why it took so long to align it.
Jeff
swisherred
Senior Member
that wasnt mine...I never got a print out with mine. The extra adjusting was the fact that they had to adjust EVERYTHING. I replaced every bushing and ball joint, etc....so nothing was anywhere near a correct setting. it wasnt just minor adjustments.
on another note I did go back and check the sector shaft adjustment again and found it to be a wee bit tight so I readjusted that and the diving has stopped. The dead spot is said to be factory resistance at center to help keep the wheel centered....according to the chrysler tech videos anyway...mine was stronger because it was too tight i guess. I know the steering wheel needs to be centered correctly and the tie rods shifted to the right a bit more to keep from hitting the oil pan with the linkage....but otherwise it seems to be pretty decent.
swisherred
Senior Member
I do have an odd pulsing vibration somewhere at 80mph...not sure what from yet...but it drives straight...stays straight on a level road and no hands...turns smoothly now and no more diving or strong center feeling.
When Is the last time you replaced your U-joints? I was getting the same. It would turn on at 80 mph. This year it slowly dropped down to around 70. I found one of my new U-joints (around 2000 miles) had excessive play in it. Torsional was still tight, but had up and down movement. I replaced the loose one and the vibration went away at 80 mph. Now it starts at closer to 90 Mph which probably come from something f the gravel road dings in my drive shaft.
swisherred
Senior Member
both a brand new...like under 30 miles...I did rebuild the rear axle and replace the center with a 3.23 open...this required the dual size u joint on the rear.
I agree with Stan if you didn't rebuilt your steering box too, you will never be happy with the handling no matter who aligns it, but a good shop would tell you the same thing after a yest drive.
3C's & a D?
Senior Member
Much like swisherreds reply, apparently they had to adjust pretty much everything that could be adjusted, and it took alot longer than expected. They've always been square with me, and know the car's. The guy who did the job knows his Mopars, and has been working on them for probably as long as I've been alive. He even lent me the correct vintage socket for the upper ball joints! Also knowing the car's history, I didn't have a hard time believing it. It was about forty dollars extra. When I brought it in, the steering wheel was crooked, and when I got it back it was straight! I was pleased with that, and it was noticeably much better. I find it does pull just a touch to the right however.
70bigblockdodge
Old Man with a Hat
Rear cam bolts need to all the way in, front cam bolts all the way out then turn front to reduce camber to ,just barely leaning in at the top. Take the wheels off and drop a plumb bob in line with upper bal joint zerk and measure to lower ball joint zerk. Repeat on the other side, these two measurements should be very close. If not they need corrected with back and forth cam bolt to get closer and maintain camber just slightly negative. This setup will give you the most caster your car can give, and brace against jounce. Once your satisfied with this set the toe with string and Jack stands making a box to square up and then give a wee little bit of toe in. All of this is not set in stone some teaks are necessary.
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