Exact starter switch

[70NPORT]

Gary, I'm starting to get too many variables in my head to keep track of so I need to ask some dumb questions first.
1. The starter won't spin when you turn the key to START. Is that correct?
2. Was this the reason you you started fiddling with the connector? In other words, was it not starting before the connector fiasco?

1. Correct.
2. Week before last I noticed some of the wiring coming from the ignition switch connector was beginning to fray and some of the insulation looked as though it had melted in spots. At one point I moved the connector just a tad bit and the engine cut off. Figured then I needed to do something about it.

 

[commando1]

Thanks.
So, you screwed up rewiring the new connector.
I need to sleep on this one. I'll figure it out by morning unless someone else does.

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[70NPORT]

Thanks.
So, you screwed up rewiring the new connector.
I need to sleep on this one. I'll figure it out by morning unless someone else does.

Posted via Topify on Android

No, the connector already had problem apparently, I'm just trying to get ahead of it. I already taken care and tested the new connections I made with the molex pins...perfect connectivity through the connections. That part is fine.

 

[commando1]

You did work on the connector and only since then, the starter won't spin.
What am I missing here??

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[70NPORT]

You did work on the connector and only since then, the starter won't spin.
What am I missing here??

Posted via Topify on Android

Yup, exactly.
Thats what I'm trying to figure out also.
The original connector definitively had issues, which are no more because I fixed it. No more frayed wiring, or melted insulation.

This starter issue is something entirely new.

 

[commando1]

It's the work you did on the connector and any associated things.
We'll go through this step by step in the morning.

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[70NPORT]

It's the work you did on the connector and any associated things.
We'll go through this step by step in the morning.

Posted via Topify on Android

The connector has no moving parts as you know. In the past month or so I've gone thru the steering column replacing the ignition switch as well as the key cylinder/lock. The original key cylinder was worn and very "loose". The only thing I didn't replace was the turn signal switch b/c it still in perfect working condition.

 

[commando1]

OK.
Somehow if you can, get wifey if need be,
have that person hold the key in the start position, stick you head back under the dash, and start jiggling the crap out of everything you can see on the drivers side. And then the stuff you can't see.

The starter will engage......

("It's not the thermostat...")

 

[polara71]

Test light?.......

 

[70NPORT]

OK.
Somehow if you can, get wifey if need be,
have that person hold the key in the start position, stick you head back under the dash, and start jiggling the crap out of everything you can see on the drivers side. And then the stuff you can't see.

The starter will engage......

("It's not the thermostat...")

Really...your being facetious again, right? can't tell sometimes. The wiring is pretty old, it is not as malleable as it once was...I don't want to risk damaging anything.

 

[70NPORT]

Wow...

OK.. Time to get back to basics.

Let's start at the starter and work our way back.

Two connections at the starter. Large battery terminal should have 12 volts all the time. Small terminal will have 12 volts only when key is turned to engage starter. Check these with test light and then jump the two connections with a screw driver. The starter should work.

Next up to the relay. Brown wire with yellow tracer from trans switch should return ground when car is in park or neutral. Battery connection should be hot all the time. Connection for brown wire to the starter solenoid should be hot when key turned to engage starter. Check the yellow wire from the ignition switch. That should be hot when key turned to engage starter. If yellow is good and battery connection is good, but solenoid connection isn't jump the starter solenoid terminal and battery terminal. The starter should work.

Jumping the relay bypasses the ignition switch and relay. Jumping the starter bypasses everything except the starter itself.

RESULTS:

"Check these with test light and then jump the two connections with a screw driver. The starter should work". Negative. Crossed the large and small terminals with a screw driver while someone was in car and turned key to start position...nothing occurred.

"Check the yellow wire from the ignition switch. That should be hot when key turned to engage starter." Affirmative. seems to work properly.


"Connection for brown wire to the starter solenoid should be hot when key turned to engage starter". Negative. No light/current while key was turned to engage starter.The brown wire (neutral safety switch?) remained absolutely dead when turning key to start position.

 

[70NPORT]

So....I put a jumper across the relay between the batt post and solenoid terminal and got nothing. I know the jumper was not faulty....yah I would have thought the starter would jump up and down with that...usually its not this difficult to find the problem, this is beginning to get under my skin....

 

[Big_John]

RESULTS:

"Check these with test light and then jump the two connections with a screw driver. The starter should work". Negative. Crossed the large and small terminals with a screw driver while someone was in car and turned key to start position...nothing occurred.

"Check the yellow wire from the ignition switch. That should be hot when key turned to engage starter." Affirmative. seems to work properly.


"Connection for brown wire to the starter solenoid should be hot when key turned to engage starter". Negative. No light/current while key was turned to engage starter.The brown wire (neutral safety switch?) remained absolutely dead when turning key to start position.

If the starter didn't work when you jumped the connections at the starter, then it's not in the steering column/starter relay/ignition switch.

It's either the starter or the battery connection. You've bypassed absolutely everything else in the system.

You tried other starters... so I think we're past that....

I know this sounds too basic to be the problem.... But humor me.

Check the battery connection. I mean take both connections off the battery, and look for corrosion. Check the terminal at the starter.

Have you really checked the battery? I mean a load test, not just voltage. If you don't have the tester, buy a cheap one at Harbor Freight or take the battery to the nearest Auto Zone and have them check it.

 

[70NPORT]

If the starter didn't work when you jumped the connections at the starter, then it's not in the steering column/starter relay/ignition switch.

It's either the starter or the battery connection. You've bypassed absolutely everything else in the system.

You tried other starters... so I think we're past that....

I know this sounds too basic to be the problem.... But humor me.

Check the battery connection. I mean take both connections off the battery, and look for corrosion. Check the terminal at the starter.

Have you really checked the battery? I mean a load test, not just voltage. If you don't have the tester, buy a cheap one at Harbor Freight or take the battery to the nearest Auto Zone and have them check it.

Never been load tested. Barely 1.5 yrs old. Didn't notice any corrosion on the starter terminal or batt terminals this afternoon. Guess I'll get the thing tested. I think AAP does it too. If that turns out to be the issue I will F'kn scream.

 

[70NPORT]

Battery was measured 580 CCA @ 72 degrees (ambient temp). It's rated at 700 CCA. Yeah, I guess it needs a good recharge....BUT I'm still not feeling that's the issue here....gut feeling.

 

[Big_John]

You've bypassed everything else by jumping the terminals at the starter.

Keep that in mind.

It's down to the starter, battery, battery connections or cables from the battery.

 

[Big_John]

Hey... You do have a good ground cable to the engine, don't you? And you did hook a ground to the starters that you tried, didn't you?

Here's what you can do....

Take a pair of jumper cables. Hook one to ground on the battery and to the starter body. Try the key for laughs...

If it doesn't work, hook the other cable to the positive post of the battery and to the battery connection on the starter. Try the key again.

By now, the car has probably started, but in case it hasn't jump the solenoid connection to the battery terminal on the starter. You don't need to turn the key... If the starter doesn't turn over, it's the starter.

 

[70NPORT]

Hey... You do have a good ground cable to the engine, don't you? And you did hook a ground to the starters that you tried, didn't you?

Here's what you can do....

Take a pair of jumper cables. Hook one to ground on the battery and to the starter body. Try the key for laughs...

If it doesn't work, hook the other cable to the positive post of the battery and to the battery connection on the starter. Try the key again.

By now, the car has probably started, but in case it hasn't jump the solenoid connection to the battery terminal on the starter. You don't need to turn the key... If the starter doesn't turn over, it's the starter.

Yeah, I already have a ground strap from the back of the engine block (affixed to the head) to firewall.

Yes, each starter was grounded. When I say nothing happened I meant each starter kicked ONCE with a turn of the key. I just reinstalled the small mini-starter and put a charging unit on the battery for about and hour or so and then tried the key. It kicked over once and only once.

The fact is for some reason there is not enough current getting to the damn starter motor...to force it to kick over---continuously, until the motor fires. Thus, I'm thinking it is not a matter of if "X" is working or not working, but of "X" is not allowing or producing ENOUGH current to pass to the starter so that it keeps actuating until the alternator picks up and key is released. The very fact the starter actuates once and only once when the key is turned tends to make me believe this. Finding "X" is the trick. I don't see anything in the FSM, but there does not appear to be any other electro/mechanical devices behind the dash that open or switches to allow current to the starter motor when the key is turned to start. The starter switch wiring combines into a trunk above the steering column that then splits off to the bulkhead connector.

 

[Big_John]

Yeah, I already have a ground strap from the back of the engine block (affixed to the head) to firewall.

Yes, each starter was grounded. When I say nothing happened I meant each starter kicked ONCE with a turn of the key. I just reinstalled the small mini-starter and put a charging unit on the battery for about and hour or so and then tried the key. It kicked over once and only once.

The fact is for some reason there is not enough current getting to the damn starter motor...to force it to kick over---continuously, until the motor fires. Thus, I'm thinking it is not a matter of if "X" is working or not working, but of "X" is not allowing or producing ENOUGH current to pass to the starter so that it keeps actuating until the alternator picks up and key is released. The very fact the starter actuates once and only once when the key is turned tends to make me believe this. Finding "X" is the trick. I don't see anything in the FSM, but there does not appear to be any other electro/mechanical devices behind the dash that open or switches to allow current to the starter motor when the key is turned to start. The starter switch wiring combines into a trunk above the steering column that then splits off to the bulkhead connector.

Ahh... I was under the impression that it didn't do anything....

So... not enough battery or it's a connection.

Is there a ground directly to the engine from the battery? Not just a ground strap to the firewall.

 

[70NPORT]

Ahh... I was under the impression that it didn't do anything....

So... not enough battery or it's a connection.

Is there a ground directly to the engine from the battery? Not just a ground strap to the firewall.

yea....u mean negative ground post on the batt to eng block.
Yup