Fuel line routings

HappyJack

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In September I picked up a 67 Fury convertible, 383, 2bbl. It ran, barely. And the fuel system was a gas can under the hood.
Fast forward to today I’ve put a new gas tank in, all new fuel lines, fuel pump, remanufactured Carter BBD 2 barrel carb.
Also replaced the top , carpet, heater core, radiator etc.
Problem is car runs well until it gets hot, then dies.
I replaced the carb as stated. And voltage regulator, ballast resistor, coil, points and cap, rotor, plugs and plug wires.
It does consistently at the same place when I test drive my neighborhood.
Once it cools off, it fires right up.
Last when it stalled I pulled the breather off and looked in the carb to be sure fuel squirted in when I pumped the accelerator. There is fuel, but I hear it sizzling in the carb.
So assuming I’m boiling fuel, where do I run the fuel line? Currently it comes off the pump, up behind the alternator, turns by the upper rad hose then into the carb. Is this factory? Will heat shielding sleeve over the line be enough?
Help!
IMG_0210.jpeg
 
I suspect the fuel is "boiling" once it's in the carb, NOT before it gets there, under pressure. It might be picking up some heat (while under the pump's pressure) and then boiling when it gets into the float bowl (not under pressure). There normally is not a lot that can be done, compared to the factory routings, other than put some ThermoTec around the fuel lines after the filter, to shield from ambient engine heat through the radiator. But not a big lot that can be done as to fuel lines, other than that.

Check for voltage loss in the battery cables, before it dies and immediately afterward. Even if they might look fresh and good on the outside, there can be internal faults, unseen, from one of my experiences.

Keep us posted on your progress,
CBODY67
 
maybe try a phenolic carb spacer to help keep heat transfer to carb from intake manifold
 
Check the operation of your Manifold Heat Control Valve. It's located on the passenger side exhaust manifold. If it's sticky, it's better to be stuck open than stuck shut.
That is something I’ve never thought of! I’ll check that first thing. Thanks.
 
Did you buy a gas tank with a vent tube?

Stop by Canada Tire and pick this up (plastic clear / see-through fuel filter):


$6. Swap it for what you have now just to see if there's fuel getting to the carb when this happens. Only use it for diagnostics because its plastic.
 
Did you buy a gas tank with a vent tube?

Stop by Canada Tire and pick this up (plastic clear / see-through fuel filter):

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$6. Swap it for what you have now just to see if there's fuel getting to the carb when this happens. Only use it for diagnostics because its plastic.
I did look into that as well. Yes the gas tank has a vent, and I thought to eliminate the possibility of it being plugged, I tried driving without the gas cap. No difference. I also tried the clear filter two different times. Once installed before the pump, and once after the pump.
But thanks for the input. I’ve been struggling with this for awhile, so I came here for an “extra set of eyes” and any ideas.
I’ve also put a new timing chain and water pump in.
 
maybe try a phenolic carb spacer to help keep heat transfer to carb from intake manifold
I also have done this. Originally when I got the car it didn’t have one, and I figured that was the problem. The car had been neglected a long time.

I keep finding things wrong, or parts not quite right, and I fix them hoping it will solve the problem. (timing chain was sloppy, carb leaked, found vacuum leaks, cleaned the bulkhead connections, and fuse box. Replaced fuel pump, all the fuel lines, coil, ballast resistor, and voltage regulator, plus the usual cap, plugs, wires and rotor. Even the points and condenser. ) And everything makes the car a tiny bit better, but I still haven’t found the big issue. It idles nicely, drives great for about 3-4 minutes then just dies. Let it sit for half hour, fires right up again.
 
Check for voltage loss in the battery cables, before it dies and immediately afterward. Even if they might look fresh and good on the outside, there can be internal faults, unseen, from one of my experiences.

Keep us posted on your progress,
CBODY67
I did check voltage at the coil, (12v ish, which I thought was high which lead me to the ballast resistor. But it wasn’t under load) and I pulled plug wires checking for spark after it died. Seemed fine.
 
You're saying that the engine will idle for any indefinate period of time, but when driving the engine will always shut down after a few minutes?

When idling, what is your battery voltage? Should be 14 or 14.5 volts, and the voltage on the coil should be 10 volts. The coils are not supposed to get full battery voltage all the time - only during starting they will get fully battery voltage. The next time this happens, measure the resistance of your coil (between the 2 threaded posts). It should be 1 or 2 ohms - very low.
 
I did check voltage at the coil, (12v ish, which I thought was high which lead me to the ballast resistor. But it wasn’t under load) and I pulled plug wires checking for spark after it died. Seemed fine.
Battery cables, not the things that they supply voltage to, but the positive and negative cables themselves. I went through a situation where my car engine would randomly start to decrease rpms at stop lights. I noticed a buzzing noise from the radio when it did that. I could blip the throttle and things would come back and no more issues until the next time it did that. I looked for things, even neutral safety switches as it would also not start after a short hot soak. Nothing I tried seemed to help that part of things. This went on for about a month! I finally went down to Radio Shack and spent $50.00 on a good volt-ohm meter.

One day, I drove home for lunch and the a/c didn't work, but it was a 10 minute drive. When I parked in front of the house, I left the engine running and got out the meter. While there, suddenly the fan relay kicked on as did the compressor, as they suddenly got voltage. With then not running, I measured a .5 volt loss between the battery and the engine block (or any other place I checked the voltage from the negative cable). After the blower relay clicked, the voltage loss was less than .1 volt. Both battery cables were OEM from when the car was new, so they looked just fine, but apparently the ground cable had an internal situation in it that could not be detected by looking at it. A new ground cable fixed it. In checking the voltages, they were always well within specs, or not nearly low enough to cause any issues.

After I put the old MP Electronic Ignition kit on my '67 Newport, I started it 4 times consecutively, but on the 5th try, nothing. Got the meter and checked voltage everywhere. Voltage was everywhere and in the right amounts. Al harness connections were clean and solid. Then I put a new solenoid on the next night. Same thing, voltage everywhere but no start.

Then I looked at the "good" battery terminal posts. I could barely see a bit of thin grunge on top, in the groove. They were "tight", so I tried to move them. No change. THEN I pulled one off and found a thin layer of grunge on them, between the cable end and post. More there than first suspected! So I got a wire brush tool and cleaned all contact surfaces and re-installed them. Had the same amount of voltage everywhere, BUT the car started and ran. Only thing I could think of, in this situation, was "volts" were getting through, but not "amps"?

These two situations, several years apart, proved to me that many of the "things" which might be in diagnostic trouble trees rarely cause problems. It's some of the things we normally figure "as good enough" that cause issues. In one case, a car just seemed to be "a bit off" in performance, so one of the things in the diagnostics was the ignition coil. After all, it was 30+ year old, so I got a new ACDelco coil for it. NO paint markings on the coil, other than a small, gold, ovaloid sticker on the bottom, "China". I installed it and no change, put the OEM coil back on and looked elsewhere.

For people who perceive they have to have the correct numbers in measurements? I once tried to set the dual points on a 440 6bbl factory distributor I had acquired, as a used unit. I put new points in it and adjusted the points with a feeler gauge. Wanting to get things exactly "right", I then got out my dial indicator for a completely precise adjustment. THAT's when I discovered that not all of the breaker cam lobes were the same height, which meant that each lobe had a different gap/dwell reading! YIKES!! The resulting dwell would vary PLUS depending upon which breaker cam lobe that "got lucky" enough to be used to do the settings. Which then can get down into coil saturation times and then into spark plug firings. Then consider that dwell affects ignition timing, degree for degree, and things can get worse, with not all cylinders firing at the exact optimum time as others might be. THAT was when I made the decision to get a Mopar Perf electronic ignition conversion kit for the car and not look back. UNTIL, of course, I might find a good source of new or refurb distributor breaker cams. Easier to find the electronic ignition kits that are good.

When the Mallory Uni-Lite system came out in the middle 1970s, that seemed to be the most exact-working unit at the time. Probably still is?

But with any of the electronic ignition kits ALSO comes the need for a good charging system. Each control box/mechanism has a minimum voltage requirement to fire the plugs. This can vary from about 10 volts down to 5.5 volts, depending upon the brand and performance orientation, it seems. In some extreme cases, the engine will turn over normally and "should start" otherwise, but with the addition of jumper cables from another running car, it fires off immediately (with the little bit of extra voltage, in this case, the car had a Chrysler Orange box on it, many years ago before knock-offs existed).

Gotta keep those volts and amps jumping to the correct places in the correct sequence and amounts for best results!

Just my experiences and observations,
CBODY67
 
You're saying that the engine will idle for any indefinate period of time, but when driving the engine will always shut down after a few minutes?
Sorry, I guess I wasn’t very clear. At idle, eventually it will just die. Rpm’s drop slightly, then nothing.
When I drive it, I have a circuit around my neighborhood. I can do almost 2 laps. Every time it dies in the same spot.
I have replaced the coil, but I will check it next time it dies.
Right now looking at manifold heat control valve.
 
Gotta keep those volts and amps jumping to the correct places in the correct sequence and amounts for best results!

Just my experiences and observations,
CBODY67
I appreciate your experience and observations. Especially with electrical stuff, which isn’t my strong suit.

I do have a new negative cable, new battery, and new cable ends on the battery. I did clean all the contacts on the bulkhead connections and the starter relay. But the positive cable is probably still original.
Looks like I have a lot more digging to do in the electrical.

But thank you. You have at least given me a direction to start looking.
 
Update of sorts. After someone mentioned the exhaust manifold heat valve I checked mine.

No counter weight or spring on it, and it is seized. No idea in what position though. So I guess next step is drop the exhaust and look inside.

IMG_0289.jpeg
 
Sorry, I guess I wasn’t very clear. At idle, eventually it will just die. Rpm’s drop slightly, then nothing.
When I drive it, I have a circuit around my neighborhood. I can do almost 2 laps. Every time it dies in the same spot.
I have replaced the coil, but I will check it next time it dies.
Right now looking at manifold heat control valve.
Thanks for this information.

Back in the 1990s, I ended up with a '68 Buick 350 4bbl car. As it was a gift, I initially went through and changed the points, plugs, wires, and other age-related things of that nature. It started easily and ran well. A few times, with it at idle for a while, the rpm would start to "go away" until it died by itself. If I caught it soon enough, blipping the throttle a few times, the rpm would come back and be normal. This puzzled me, especially as it started to happen more frequently and while driving on the freeway, at random times. I would put it into "N" and cost to the shoulder and try to re-start it while madly moving the accel pedal. Many times, if I kept the rpm up with a shift into "D", it would stay running. One night, I barely got it back to my shadetree shop. I also later discovered that the cigarette lighter socket didn't work with my "bag" cell phone of the times!

I had noticed that the prior owner had cut the metal fuel lines between the fuel pump and the carburetor, for some reason. Then, one night, I decided to install the fuel pump I had gotten for it. After the new pump was on, I started the engine and it sounded better than it ever had (not that it was really bad before). No more problems, either.

I suspect that the fuel line to the carb had been cut to install a fuel pressure gauge for diagnostics. But nothing of consequence was found.

Take care,
CBODY67
 
Ok just to close this thread, rerouting my fuel line and covering it with heat shielding did not fix the problem. Checking wiring revealed some burnt wires. Replaced them, and the alternator. No real change. Turned out the idle screws to make it run richer, idled better, but still stalls when hot.
Gonna start a new thread about this. Thanks for everyone’s suggestions. I’m still going through wiring.
 
I'm going to suggest doing a volume test on the fuel pump.

Simple to do. Disconnect the fuel line at a convenient spot and run a hose to a soda bottle. Unhook the coil wire so the car doesn't start. Hit the key for a few seconds and see if the gas is squirting a strong stream into the bottle. If not, it could be the pump, a bad line, or it's common to have a worn fuel pump push rod causing this.
 
as you mentioned the battery cables had "new ends", i'm guessing you mean the [temporary] "bolt on" type, which you cut off the old ends, strip approximately 3/8" of insulation off of the cable ends, then sandwich the cable between a strap and the terminal, tightened with two 1/4" bolts.
if so, throw away those ends and cables, and buy a quality set of aftermarket battery cables !
i have found and fixed so many electrical problems over the last [almost] 60 years, caused in part, by those HORRIBLE replacement battery cable ends, it is beyond belief !
please do yourself a HUGE favor and replace those cables, THEN begin to troubleshoot your electrical gremlins.
these types of cable ends are almost at the top of my list of HATED electrical repairs.
i am not trying to belittle you in any way, nor am i trying to offend you or your mechanical abilities.
i am only trying to help you avoid chasing your tail trying to find the root cause of your problem, by making sure your basics are sound.
 
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