Fury 383 timing chain broke?

[moparblood]

should I remove the oil pan, and can I? remove it with engine still in car.
want to get all the crap from gear out.
wondering if it will clog pickup?
thoughts?

 

[1970FuryConv]

I had that happen with a 400 1973 Dodge. I had to pull down the exhaust and the center link and then pull down the pan to get all the teeth out of the bottom of the pan and out of the oil pan pickup. Pieces of nylon plastic tooth were everywhere. Unfortunately, I think you gonna have to do the same thing.

 

[moparblood]

did you undo the mounts and jack up motor?

 

[1970FuryConv]

did you undo the mounts and jack up motor?

With the 400 big block I did not have to do that. To drop an oil pan on a small block V-8, I did have to remove the lower bolt from the engine mounts and lift everything, jack under the transmission.

 

[Davea Lux]

If the timing chain has failed to the point that the engine no longer runs, you are probably going to have other problems. If the chain failed completely, you will likely have bent valves and/or bent push rods. Put a socket and breaker bar on the big nut for the harmonic balancer, remove the distributor cap and have a helper rock the crank back and forth to see if the distributor shaft still moves. This will tell you if the gear/chain has failed completely, if the chain has 15 degrees or more of free play, the chain is shot and needs to be replaced. Once that is done, you can run a compression check to see of any cylinders are low which would indicate valve or push rod problems. I would pull the timing cover and inspect the chain in any case, this will tell you how much debris is in the pan. Pan should always be pulled if teeth are missing. Timing chains start failing at about 70k. A failed timing gear will always clog the pick up.

Dave

 

[Big_John]

If the timing chain has failed to the point that the engine no longer runs, you are probably going to have other problems.

^This^

 

[moparblood]

i took heads off, have a least 4 bent valves, so there being redone, was hoping not to drop pan.

 

[CBODY67]

On some engines, to get the oil pan off, you have to have the crank positioned such that the oil pan can be snaked-out between the crank counterweights. Check the FSM for information.

 

[twostick]

If you already have taken the heads off, the oil pan will be child's play by comparison.

Drop the center link and exhaust crossover if it's a single exhaust and if the pan still won't clear the Kframe, pull the motor mount bolts and either hoist it up a few inches or jack it from the bottom.

Kevin

 

[413]

May as well just pull it out and work on it out of the car. Change freeze plugs while it’s out, work on it, do it up. Put it all together and install it Back in the car as a complete unit.

unless you like leaning over the fenders and working around steering linkage and exhaust pipes for that oil pan.

or maybe you don’t have the room/tools to pull it out. Somethi)g to think about.

 

[fury fan]

Don't pull the pan unless you are dying to do so.
I've done 3-4 timing chain jobs and have never pulled the pan.

On a bigblock, you can remove the fuel pump and you have 'access' to teh pan via a funnel. And when doing a timing chain, you have access to teh whole front edge of the pan that the timing cover normally blocks.

Get 3-4 gallons of kerosene, mineral spirits, etc. Leave the drain plug in and fill teh pan with solvent (1.5-ish gallons). Let it sit and soak.
Drain the pan, maybe do another soak if you want, then remove the plug and rinse some more solvent thru there. (important to have the plug OUT when doing the final rinse, you want maximum fluid flow to carry the debris out.)
I've also read you can remove teh oil pump and then backflush the pickup tube (although I've never done that).

This should clean things out well enough (based on my experience). Never saw any OP issues afterward and the oil stays cleaner-looking/longer after an oil change.

 

[stubs300]

i took heads off, have a least 4 bent valves, so there being redone, was hoping not to drop pan.

How big are the dents those valves put into the pistons?

May as well just pull it out and work on it out of the car. Change freeze plugs while it’s out, work on it, do it up. Put it all together and install it Back in the car as a complete unit.

Exactly! You don't say how many miles are on this motor or it's previous condition, so how many are there? If the chain is actually broken, you're going to need to do a lot more than just a chain swap! Otherwise you're just pissin money into the wind!

 

[moparblood]

motor has 140k, the pistons Don't have any dents just the valve scratches.
the cam teeth worn down till the chain started slipping.
heads are being done, really don't want to pull motor, will try the kerosene flush

 

[1970FuryConv]

My 1973 Monaco had about 130,000 miles on it. All the nylon teeth broke off of the cam sprocket while I was on the way home on a highway in the dark. So I would say your experience is probably about normal with B – engines. I have generally read the timing chain and sprocket's should be changed at 100,000 miles if you have the original nylon tooth cam sprocket.

I'm glad the pistons are okay.

I still think the oil pan should be dropped so you can clean out the pickup. Even if pieces of teeth aren't clogging it, broken off valve seals can clog it, along with other debris. Best of luck, Ben

 

[413]

If you have ever seen an oil pickup full of nylon teeth and valve stem seals you would know to pull that pan. A Flush wont clean it.

 

[fury fan]

For me, I've never personally seen a pickup full of debris on an engine that I had as a runner, because I've never looked at them. If they were full of debris, either the flush cleaned them out or the debris didn't cause any oil pressure problems - and every car of mine gets an OP gauge.

If he automatically pulls the pan, somebody will suggest to drop some caps and check some bearings, someone else will say while you're in there why not just put new bearings and a rear seal in, and it'll snowball.

I like to keep things simple until required otherwise.
It would be simple enough to flush the pan, install the heads/valvetrain/VCs/fresh oil, and do an oil pressure check with a mechanical gauge and an electric drill.

If pressure is low - is it notably lower than it was before (if we have a baseline with an aftermarket gauge) or is it low vs factory spec or expectations for a 140k engine?
If pressure is lower than before, no effort has been wasted, and he's only out 5 quarts of oil - proceed to remove the pan and dig deeper.

If pressure is good - does he have a problem?

 

[John Kirby]

I would pull the pan. My father has a 71 monaco that he did a head swap due to a burnt valve. A couple months later the crud in the pan clogged the pickup and basically destroyed the engine. Better safe than sorry. I would also seriously consider a bearing/rear seal replacement while you have it off. Not that difficult once the pan is off. And a set of bearings isn't that expensive. It makes for a long weekend of work but you're already 90% there with the pan off. When I took mine off several years ago I used a bottle jack to lift up the engine and put some wood blocks between the motor mounts and engine. Was enough to get the pan off. You don't need to completely remove the center link, separate the tire rod and idler arm on the passenger side and rotate it out of the way. The exhaust crossover may be more difficult if the bolts are badly rusted (usually are). I can't stress enough, use jack stands to support the car.

 

[moparblood]

Ok, I pulled the pan, and yes had a bunch of crap in it. took awhile but clean it out real good.
installed everything and hooked up rockers, but found about 4 lifters had collasped.
so I ordered a new set along with a new cam( not easy to find). lifters yes.
so now waiting on cam.