Help me understand the Formal market. Please!

Because there's eleventybillion aftermarket parts for GM cars. they don't have to hunt down every little bit picky part. They merely have to flip a page.

Same reason rodders put 350's in everything, there's support for them under every rock.
 
If that were true Caddys would be low-balled too as their parts are not cheap. Same for Porsche, BMW, or any car where the parts are expensive. No, that doesn't wash for me. I think Stanley is closer to the point: the general public has thoughts and ideas that are just off-base. A Hemi Road Runner will pull 100 grand but a Hemi E Body starts at close to 2 grand and a Hemi '71 Cuda will pull 2 million. Why??? There is simply no reason or justification for it?
 
Look at these ads and then look at who is buying them at these prices. The "ridiculous" priced cars are not being sold to local customers. You'll find these cars if they do sell are finding their way to Europe and Australia. I know because I have bought one.

My car I first saw advertised for US$14,000 on consignment and eventually came down to US$12,000 before I started making serious enquiries about it. I had done some research and knew that privately sold cars were going for half this so made a "low" offer around what I figured would still be considered high by some. Eventually we met in the middle and I got the car for US$8,500 plus around US$500 in fees.

To you guys this would have been a lot of money but when you are buying a car sight unseen from the other side of the world the additional price paid by going through a dealer or consignment agent is more than offset by the hassle of travelling to buy a car in person. All the shipping is normally handled by the seller as well, again saving massively in time. The car was also prepared for export and all the requirements met regarding degassing the air con and storage before the car can be shipped. It can take weeks or even months to get approval to import a car to Australia and if it is put on a ship before this is obtained our customs can put it on the next ship back to the USA at my cost.

Landed my car still cost me less than AUD$15,000 where buying locally from an importer would cost me $20,000 or more. At the time I bought the US and Australian dollars were at parity so considering our higher average wages the cost as a percentage of income meant I would be paying about the same in relative terms as you would be for a good driver.

I would love to buy my next car personally for the same prices as you do but once you add the $5,000 to $6,000 in travel costs and after shipping the savings would be minimal compared to how I bought my New Yorker. You would spend half your time running around getting things done for shipping.
 
Look at these ads and then look at who is buying them at these prices. The "ridiculous" priced cars are not being sold to local customers. You'll find these cars if they do sell are finding their way to Europe and Australia. I know because I have bought one.

My car I first saw advertised for US$14,000 on consignment and eventually came down to US$12,000 before I started making serious enquiries about it. I had done some research and knew that privately sold cars were going for half this so made a "low" offer around what I figured would still be considered high by some. Eventually we met in the middle and I got the car for US$8,500 plus around US$500 in fees.

To you guys this would have been a lot of money but when you are buying a car sight unseen from the other side of the world the additional price paid by going through a dealer or consignment agent is more than offset by the hassle of travelling to buy a car in person. All the shipping is normally handled by the seller as well, again saving massively in time. The car was also prepared for export and all the requirements met regarding degassing the air con and storage before the car can be shipped. It can take weeks or even months to get approval to import a car to Australia and if it is put on a ship before this is obtained our customs can put it on the next ship back to the USA at my cost.

Landed my car still cost me less than AUD$15,000 where buying locally from an importer would cost me $20,000 or more. At the time I bought the US and Australian dollars were at parity so considering our higher average wages the cost as a percentage of income meant I would be paying about the same in relative terms as you would be for a good driver.

I would love to buy my next car personally for the same prices as you do but once you add the $5,000 to $6,000 in travel costs and after shipping the savings would be minimal compared to how I bought my New Yorker. You would spend half your time running around getting things done for shipping.
Thanks for the clarification... and I understand the logic you are applying. I don't entirely understand seller's holding onto a car in inventory for so long as some of these have been around. I have my theories, I think Gesswein has found a way to write off a mostly personal collection and has saved on additional insurance/registration as well. Lash may get to use the highly advertised nice looking ones to draw suckers for cheaper uglier cars. I think they all benefit from the big auctions and television shows, but the only real buyers are over seas folk like you who do have reason to want somebody on this side to act as their agent for the importation or the "car as an investment" crowd who just haven't done their research very well.

Regardless, I bet the dealers in question only paid about... $2500...
 
We will see most of these same ridiculously priced cars still for sale years from now with the same pictures from the current sellers...

I don't see that many Formal's in Europe...or down under. The European market wants Fusie's.
 
There's something not being discussed here.
Example: Scumbag Classic Motors throws up an ad for a NYB for $16,000.00.
We all laugh at them and say it's a $6k car, at best.
Eventually the car disappears so it had to have been sold/flipped.
Well, we know that if SCM Ltd. wanted $16k, it certainly was not going to let it go for $6k. Nor $8k. Not even $10k. Most likely around $12k. No dealer is going to accept a price more than $4k off.
So the car sells for $12k. That's double of what we say it's worth. Double
T
he exception is Gershwein. He keeps them for years. But he's a big new car store so he's writing his zillion dollar classics off as advertising expense. So we can't include him when looking at prices.
 
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If that were true Caddys would be low-balled too as their parts are not cheap. Same for Porsche, BMW, or any car where the parts are expensive. No, that doesn't wash for me. I think Stanley is closer to the point: the general public has thoughts and ideas that are just off-base. A Hemi Road Runner will pull 100 grand but a Hemi E Body starts at close to 2 grand and a Hemi '71 Cuda will pull 2 million. Why??? There is simply no reason or justification for it?


Caddies of the same vintage as the formals don't sell for crap either. Face it, it was a shitty decade that those that were born in it don't care about, those that were in their teens during that time want the muscle cars, and the ones that came after it don't understand it. It was the decade that brought us the Bee Gees and Muskrat love for Christ sake. Who wants to be reminded of that? I don't.

Porsche, BMW? Status symbol cars. I'm still looking for a 928 at the right price. I'd drive that ish every day.

Oh yeah and basically mopars sucked in the 70's, or at least their quality did. Or that's the perception anyway. Wouldn't own very many GM's from the 70's or 80's for much the same reason. Actually, if I had to think on it, I'd really only be interested in a Grand Nation or GNX. Other than that I don't think I'd own a GM from that era. Wouldn't own a Lincoln out of the 70's, or an LTD. But, get me to the Mark VII, and yeah I'd buy one. Hell even a mid 80's T-bird TC.

I blame drugs for the crappy looking designs in the 70's. I won't say who/what I blame for the quality issues.
 
Pontiac still had a large ragtop in '75, and they are regularly advertised at over 15 grand - I peruse every issue of Hemmings Motor News and see them every month.

I'm not following your comment about quality and FWD cars. ??? The last of the large Mopar ragtops were 1970, and they were/are good cars. Yet, people will pay twice as much for a GM ragtop. Why is that? Because of the quality of the FWD cars? Sorry, but that's nonsense.

Talking 1975 and later when Chrysler's rep for quality was in the dumps. Having Iacocca looking for a bailout made the company look even worse. The reference to GM was that their quality wasn't bad at that time but started downhill in 1978 with the X cars and then the wholesale change to FWD and crappy automatics. Since we were talking formals that eliminates everything earlier.

Missed the Pontiac but so what it is still a GM car and as such carries greater value with the public than Chrysler. That is just the way it is and no doubt always will be. Alfred Sloan did a great job.
 
Here's how I understand the whole "Classic car Market" If I'm trying to sell it it's worth nothing. If I'm wanting to buy it it's worth more than the average house. Not fair but it's the reality of it.
 
Cars more than 20 years old we can leave left hand drive. Us kiwi buy 1000s of your cars a year in this age group. and they have to be in very good shape. so we don't mind paying a little bit more for them.
like RTCruiser has said alot of over sea buyers are buying your classic cars.
You may say we have lots of cars in the U.S. so no big deal. But this drive the prices up over time
Was that long ago Aussie Ford Holden and Chrysler were way cheaper than a U.S. base car. but as it got harder to find good ones price now are the same or higher. so many guys are looking at your cars and doing a trip at the same time.
 
Was that long ago Aussie Ford Holden and Chrysler were way cheaper than a U.S. base car. but as it got harder to find good ones price now are the same or higher. so many guys are looking at your cars and doing a trip at the same time.

something like this?

Holden-Monaro-GTS-1972.jpg
 
We will see most of these same ridiculously priced cars still for sale years from now with the same pictures from the current sellers...

I don't see that many Formal's in Europe...or down under. The European market wants Fusie's.

Yes the Fusies are still worth more but the formals make a good entry point for those wanting something different. At the time I imported mine I knew of only one other 76-78 New Yorker in the country but now I know of at least 5 brought in around the same time as well as a couple of Newports.

I must admit though that we're in a minority as most people with money are snapping up muscle cars. You can bet there would have been 10 Road Runners imported for every full size C boby.

My friend is currently in the process of restoring a '68 Coronet convertible and then when he's finished that he will start on his '57 Chrysler 300C
 
Yes the Fusies are still worth more but the formals make a good entry point for those wanting something different. At the time I imported mine I knew of only one other 76-78 New Yorker in the country but now I know of at least 5 brought in around the same time as well as a couple of Newports.

I must admit though that we're in a minority as most people with money are snapping up muscle cars. You can bet there would have been 10 Road Runners imported for every full size C boby.

My friend is currently in the process of restoring a '68 Coronet convertible and then when he's finished that he will start on his '57 Chrysler 300C
You can do me a favor. A dealer down there bought my 67 turquoise Newport Fast top a few months ago. Can you do a check on the Amercan classic dealer ads to see if it's on the market yet.
 
You can do me a favor. A dealer down there bought my 67 turquoise Newport Fast top a few months ago. Can you do a check on the Amercan classic dealer ads to see if it's on the market yet.

This one?
1967 Chrysler Newport Coupe in Greenbank QLD FOR SALE - Autotrader.com.au

Nice car but the importers here are possibly paying a lot less then someone like me. Many off them have buyers on the ground in the USA and would be paying the same price as you from classified ads and ebay and then loading the price at this end. It would have to be an exceptional cor for them to pay top dollar from a dealer and then try and add their margin to that here.

For $22,000 it should be turn key ready to go to the local shows. This looks like it needs a respray before you would do that
 
For some contrast HERE is around the equivelent Australian car as the Newport.
Not original in any sense of the word and would probably take another $20,000 to get to a half decent show car. Original versions of this car could easily run to $30,000 or more. Compare that to a US model with 440 V8 and you can see why what you think is a rip off we think are bargains
 
This one?
1967 Chrysler Newport Coupe in Greenbank QLD FOR SALE - Autotrader.com.au

Nice car but the importers here are possibly paying a lot less then someone like me. Many off them have buyers on the ground in the USA and would be paying the same price as you from classified ads and ebay and then loading the price at this end. It would have to be an exceptional cor for them to pay top dollar from a dealer and then try and add their margin to that here.

For $22,000 it should be turn key ready to go to the local shows. This looks like it needs a respray before you would do that
YES!! :wideyed:
That's my car. Well, used to be mine. :( Thank you.

That would be aprox. $16k USD, yes?
That pic shows it still sitting in California.
I know how much he's got into it and I guess the markup is maybe fair. I think....
1813e869-b9e3-41e7-87b3-6af53be92b13-atlg.jpg
 
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