How to Choose 440
- Thread starter MN72Fury
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has2bmopar
Senior Member
OMFG.... WTF... :censored: Stan on drugs.... Any questions?
C'mon man pull it together. If you need someone to talk to, I am here.... (occasionally).
commando1
Old Man with a Hat
I am so disappointed in you. You totally missed my usual and brilliant facetiousism (is that even a word?).
has2bmopar
Senior Member
GESUNDHEIT :grin:
Ripinator
Old Man with a Hat
Matt: Is this really true concerning the early engine blocks ? I heard somewhere that this is a myth. . .
Rip
BigFury
Well-Known Member
70bigblockdodge
Old Man with a Hat
Early blocks 66-67 are missing a reinforcing rib on the outside of the block, fwiw I don't think it will make much difference unless really building a monster.
Hard crowd to please here! My 2¢:
Take the 360/727A out, put in the corner of your garage, and build a 440/727B to what you want (mid to high 400hp?) and drive the he'll out of it. You can build a motor for less than 5k and still get what you want. 440Source, Edelbrock, the new Trickflow heads, if they're out, all are great choices for a mild build and as said before cost about the same as porting old iron heads. If you can get a 727 that was behind a 440 you have better stronger internal parts, saving money to start.
If you ever want to sell the car to Stan, swap the old drivetrain back in and sell me your built 440!
On a side note, I'd love to see your car parked next to maro's sedan at Mopars in the Park next year. He's planning on swapping in a 440 also.
Take the 360/727A out, put in the corner of your garage, and build a 440/727B to what you want (mid to high 400hp?) and drive the he'll out of it. You can build a motor for less than 5k and still get what you want. 440Source, Edelbrock, the new Trickflow heads, if they're out, all are great choices for a mild build and as said before cost about the same as porting old iron heads. If you can get a 727 that was behind a 440 you have better stronger internal parts, saving money to start.
If you ever want to sell the car to Stan, swap the old drivetrain back in and sell me your built 440!
On a side note, I'd love to see your car parked next to maro's sedan at Mopars in the Park next year. He's planning on swapping in a 440 also.
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I've heard this about the early blocks from more than one trusted source but sources aren't always right. If I were looking I'd go for the earlier blocks.
twostick
Senior Member
For your reading pleasure.
http://www.440source.com/blockinfo.htm
http://arengineering.com/tech/sonic-checking-the-mopar-big-block/
I've always found that the best 440 blocks have the distributor in the front.
Kevin
http://www.440source.com/blockinfo.htm
http://arengineering.com/tech/sonic-checking-the-mopar-big-block/
I've always found that the best 440 blocks have the distributor in the front.
Kevin
72Fury
Senior Member
Brace yourself. It's far from cheap to do what your talking about. Actually it's insane money. I paid $800 for the core 440. My machine shop bill is $2200 on the block (which did include ring file fitting and assembly) + the pistons + the rods. No heads yet. I found a rebuilt hp 727 for $800. I bet I 'll have around 8 grand in that when done & still need a radiator & exhaust. I'm far from finished...I don't know if you want to open up that can of worms. I had no realistic idea. I would change your rear axle, stall, shift kit, and a few other things first. If that doesn't do it, and you still want to spend, then by all means do it.
Wow! I would have sold you cores for both for under $500 with heads, worst case scenario. I should take a trip down south and seek some of my stuff. I can't give away heads up here. That most I've paid for a 440 that was running was $500 with an rv trans, got stronger planetary gears worth almost half of the total price. They made how many 440's? They are around. Got another out of a truck I got for $400. Got a ton of parts for another project and engine and trans cores.
moper
Well-Known Member
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I have a nice documented low mile Fury with 360. I plan on building a 440 but want to make the right decisions:
I want a strong 440 with 450 - 475 hp as goal Any core 440 can do that in stock form, with modern performance machining, and a moderate hydraulic cam, and decent exhaust.
It should be able to lay rubber (I just purchased 3.23, 9 1/4 rearend with sure grip) See above.
I worry about a motor that is over bored and at risk of cracking (how much over is ok with sleeves)? Boring is done to provide a perfectly round and straight bore. It restores the wear surface. It's not done to make an engine bigger, nor does it really affect the ability of the block to transfer heat to the coolant, unless it is taken too far. I would limit any over bore to +.030 at max. There are plenty of std bore or running 440s that don't need to go beyond .030 over.
I would like it to be a strong sounding motor but not overly loud so my wife complains and hence will not travel in the car Good dual exhaust need not be loud, and cam choice determines if headers are warranted or not. Plan to run manifolds and cam accordingly, and she'll be happy.
I heard before 1972 is important? Forged Crank, etc. The only thing forged vs cast will do for you is be cheaper to internally balance. There is no other boon to using a forged, and many salesmen think because it's aforged crank it's worth a lot, and cast is worthless. That difference in pricing is normally more than the difference in cost to internally balance. Forged came in everything up to '72, and in some HD applications in cars and trucks up until '78. Cast ran '72-'78.
What are best heads / design 904, 906, etc. Personally I like 346/452s. But really once they are fully machined with new valves, a 5 angle valve job, etc etc, they are pretty close to the same. Use whatever is on the core engine. With no porting but fit with performance valves and a 5 angle valve job any head will flow enough for your hp levels.
I have never built a motor before and appreciate all suggestions
Do I need a new transmission 727 now, but is 440 different? RBs share the bellhousing pattern with the B wedges. Your A (small block) 727 will not interchange. You'll need a big block transmission too. However the driveshaft and shifter linkage will be the same. You will also need the correct kickdown linkage for the RB (440).
What is good stall in torque converter 2200 rpm? The convertor stall should be lower than your intended highway cruise rpm, and should match your cam. IMO, a factory high stall unit of around 1800 will be fine. Also - the heavier the car, the higher the stall speed IN THAT CAR.
I want a strong 440 with 450 - 475 hp as goal Any core 440 can do that in stock form, with modern performance machining, and a moderate hydraulic cam, and decent exhaust.
It should be able to lay rubber (I just purchased 3.23, 9 1/4 rearend with sure grip) See above.
I worry about a motor that is over bored and at risk of cracking (how much over is ok with sleeves)? Boring is done to provide a perfectly round and straight bore. It restores the wear surface. It's not done to make an engine bigger, nor does it really affect the ability of the block to transfer heat to the coolant, unless it is taken too far. I would limit any over bore to +.030 at max. There are plenty of std bore or running 440s that don't need to go beyond .030 over.
I would like it to be a strong sounding motor but not overly loud so my wife complains and hence will not travel in the car Good dual exhaust need not be loud, and cam choice determines if headers are warranted or not. Plan to run manifolds and cam accordingly, and she'll be happy.
I heard before 1972 is important? Forged Crank, etc. The only thing forged vs cast will do for you is be cheaper to internally balance. There is no other boon to using a forged, and many salesmen think because it's aforged crank it's worth a lot, and cast is worthless. That difference in pricing is normally more than the difference in cost to internally balance. Forged came in everything up to '72, and in some HD applications in cars and trucks up until '78. Cast ran '72-'78.
What are best heads / design 904, 906, etc. Personally I like 346/452s. But really once they are fully machined with new valves, a 5 angle valve job, etc etc, they are pretty close to the same. Use whatever is on the core engine. With no porting but fit with performance valves and a 5 angle valve job any head will flow enough for your hp levels.
I have never built a motor before and appreciate all suggestions
Do I need a new transmission 727 now, but is 440 different? RBs share the bellhousing pattern with the B wedges. Your A (small block) 727 will not interchange. You'll need a big block transmission too. However the driveshaft and shifter linkage will be the same. You will also need the correct kickdown linkage for the RB (440).
What is good stall in torque converter 2200 rpm? The convertor stall should be lower than your intended highway cruise rpm, and should match your cam. IMO, a factory high stall unit of around 1800 will be fine. Also - the heavier the car, the higher the stall speed IN THAT CAR.
Landyacht
Active Member
You must be kidding
My '70 Newport has a 440 with 2.73 gears. It will spin the tires in stock condition.
This was quite embarrassing as it led to a 19 second quarter mile.
So, 450 HP is not necessary to spin the tires. But, if your car were mine, I'd keep the 360. I'd rather have the gas mileage instead of the ability to spin the tires. That's my opinion.
This was quite embarrassing as it led to a 19 second quarter mile.
So, 450 HP is not necessary to spin the tires. But, if your car were mine, I'd keep the 360. I'd rather have the gas mileage instead of the ability to spin the tires. That's my opinion.
polara71
Old Man with a Hat
This stock 71 440 will NOT spin the tires from a standstill . 3:23 gears in the rear and she ran a 15.3...with a bad reaction time . I dont have any of these to be good on gas, I dont really care what the mileage is. They get driven so little it has no bearing on my financial outcome at the end of the year. The 360 isnt going to get that much better fuel economy for you to notice
twostick
Senior Member
70bigblockdodge
Old Man with a Hat
Meh small blocks.
Dave i get the no small block love but you got to At least have some respect for the 340, one of the all time great engines.
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