For Sale Hurst and a Hose $7500

[jamo68]

NICE FIND! Many people don't know that these cars had 440-6 "base" engines in them with the heavy duty 6 pak rods, etc, minutes the 3-2 barrel carbs. This engine was the same engine as in my 1970 440-6 Superbird, minus the carbs.....

 

[bluefury361]

I know...... The answer is NO.....!
Check out some original ad's and brochures and you'll see them refered to as "supercars". In the case of the C bodys .... "Gentleman's supercars".
"Muscle car" is a term coined by some magazine editor sometime in the late 70,s, long after real "supercar's" were gone.

No big deal, but the "muscle car" term being the accepted descriptive term kind of go's against the grain for me..... JMHO..... :shruggy:

 

[Samplingman]

NICE FIND! Many people don't know that these cars had 440-6 "base" engines in them with the heavy duty 6 pak rods, etc, minutes the 3-2 barrel carbs. This engine was the same engine as in my 1970 440-6 Superbird, minus the carbs.....

Which car had a "440-6 base" engine?

:icon_scratch:

 

[bluefury361]

It may be that all 1970 U code 440's had the bigger rods. It was a warrantee thing.
The A12 1969 Road Runners and Superbee's used the same, (lighter), rods as the 440 HP engines and would rev faster and a little higher then the 1970 versions with the heaver rods. It put the 70 six bbl and six pack cars at a disadvantage over the 69's.

 

[bluefury361]

Which car had a "440-6 base" engine?

:icon_scratch:

1969 A12's

 

[Samplingman]

1969 A12's

Thanks, I thought he was talking about the 300H.

 

[Big_John]

It may be that all 1970 U code 440's had the bigger rods. It was a warrantee thing.
The A12 1969 Road Runners and Superbee's used the same, (lighter), rods as the 440 HP engines and would rev faster and a little higher then the 1970 versions with the heaver rods. It put the 70 six bbl and six pack cars at a disadvantage over the 69's.

I've never heard that to be fact, although it is possible.

The small rod engine was definitely the better bet... Not only was it faster, it was less likely to come apart. I think almost every big rod 440 I ever took apart had some sort of issue with its rods and/or crank. I never saw the same problems with the small rod engines.

 

[commando1]

Thanks, I thought he was talking about the 300H.

Thanks for asking first. I was about to jump on him for that myself

 

[bluefury361]

Thanks for asking first. I was about to jump on him for that myself

Samplingman Which car had a "440-6 base" engine?

It was a simple question. No elaboration. Fact is the ONLY cars equipped with a 440 6 bbl or six pack base engine were the 69 A12's.

Stating that the 70 300H came with a "base" six pack engine minus the trip carbs is not quite true as the camshaft was also different.

 

[mrmopar66]

I would like to have the hood, trunklid and all its fiberglass components to throw at my 300 vert.

 

[jamo68]

Big John,

Yes, the smaller rods were less brittle than the heavy duty rods. And of course the slugs were a tad down with the compression. The 300H had the same exhaust manifolds as my 440-6 superbird ($600) along with many other parts. The heads were the same too. BTW... this 375 HP (auto) engine got the better 727 torqueflite (high upshift) with the extra clutch packs too... just like my bird... same tranny.

The point I was making if someone didn't care for the car... just the parts alone for a specific restoration would be valuable. If I could not find a "V" code engine for my bird, I would look for a TNT engine. Yes the rods were heavier.... but at 175 mph I didn't mind having the heavier rods...

 

[jamo68]

Big John,

Talking with racers from the past(Duluth and Hibbing, MN.), the 440-6 rods were not a reliable as the normal 440 rods. Up here in Northern Minnesota, many of the racers took out their heavy 440-6 rods and changed them out because of reliability issues at the track.....

 

[bluefury361]

FYI:
The driver side HP exhaust manifold is different between a B & C body.
The only 727 with extra clutch packs was the in the 426 Hemi equipped cars.
The "904" cylinder heads were used on all 68-69 383 and 440's with a heavy duty double valve spring on the HP engines.

I'm always amazed at the misinformation out there. I can only guess that a lot folks are reading Mopar Collector Guide and getting their fact's from all the wrong information printed there.
If you insist on getting MCG ...... Just look at the pictures. There are better places to get spec's and fact's.

 

[Fratzog]

I know...... The answer is NO.....!
Check out some original ad's and brochures and you'll see them refered to as "supercars". In the case of the C bodys .... "Gentleman's supercars".
"Muscle car" is a term coined by some magazine editor sometime in the late 70,s, long after real "supercar's" were gone.

No big deal, but the "muscle car" term being the accepted descriptive term kind of go's against the grain for me..... JMHO..... :shruggy:

I think of my 68 Monaco 500 with 440/727 as a bankers muscle car and subscribe to the following definition:

The Merriam-Webster dictionary defines muscle cars as "any of a group of American-made 2-door sports coupes with powerful engines designed for high-performance driving."

 

[jamo68]

Bluefury,

Thanks for your comments on my posting. Your information is incorrect on the tranny for the 440-6, auto cars. "My" 70 superbird, 440-6, 8 3/4 rear end had the hemi automatic, and VIN verified, with the extra clutch packs as standard equipment. I even checked the part numbers.. I don't use MCG, nor have I stated that I used MCG as a reference. I will keep you posted when I tear down my 300H. I have documented about everything on my superbird, down to the assembly line markings and items found in the car, etc. Nothing was clear cut when cars went down the assembly line...... a lot of person publish mis-information about what should be according to..... you get it. Thanks again for the dialogue. Very much respected.

FYI:
The driver side HP exhaust manifold is different between a B & C body.
The only 727 with extra clutch packs was the in the 426 Hemi equipped cars.
The "904" cylinder heads were used on all 68-69 383 and 440's with a heavy duty double valve spring on the HP engines.

I'm always amazed at the misinformation out there. I can only guess that a lot folks are reading Mopar Collector Guide and getting their fact's from all the wrong information printed there.
If you insist on getting MCG ...... Just look at the pictures. There are better places to get spec's and fact's.

 

[saforwardlook]

Bluefury,

Thanks for your comments on my posting. Your information is incorrect on the tranny for the 440-6, auto cars. "My" 70 superbird, 440-6, 8 3/4 rear end had the hemi automatic, and VIN verified, with the extra clutch packs as standard equipment. I even checked the part numbers.. I don't use MCG, nor have I stated that I used MCG as a reference. I will keep you posted when I tear down my 300H. I have documented about everything on my superbird, down to the assembly line markings and items found in the car, etc. Nothing was clear cut when cars went down the assembly line...... a lot of person publish mis-information about what should be according to..... you get it. Thanks again for the dialogue. Very much respected.

Jamo68 is indeed correct, as the 440HP engines all got the extra clutch packs in 1970 - 71 at least. Those transmissions are identified by a ring groove at the very front of the input shaft that the standard 727Bs do not have.

 

[fc7_plumcrazy]

there were 3 versions of 727 AFAIK.
with three clutches (for regluar 383 cars)
with four clutches (for HP cars)
with five clutches (Hemi)

Carsten

 

[commando1]

I've been asking that question for years and nobody could tell me the differences.
Thank you, Carsten. I should have just asked you in the first place.

 

[bluefury361]

there were 3 versions of 727 AFAIK.
with three clutches (for regluar 383 cars)
with four clutches (for HP cars)
with five clutches (Hemi)

My reference was to the 5 clutch pack "hemi" 727. I'm pretty sure the 440 727's used four. I have seen reference to a 5 clutch pack trans used in SOME 6bbl applications but nothing specific. Probably 70-71.

 

[LocuMob]

I've Always heard the 383 and 440 cars had the same transmission, the 440 HP cars had a beefed up transmission, and the 6pac and Hemi cars had even even more beefed up version, as described by Carsten. Not claiming right or wrong, just whatvive heard/learned.

MCG gives misinformation? But they do it so entertainingly! I do like their shirts though.