Ignition Coil Wiring

[Boyd]

My 65 New Yorker came out of AZ.

I checked out the wiring in the harness and the wiring is so brittle, I had to run heat shrink up the wire to cover the brakes, but I am still having short problems.

If I take the Pos wire off the coil, where dies the other end go? I have checked the shop manual, but it is a little confusing.

I have taken the other side of the coil directly to the alternator.

 

[Davea Lux]

Negative lead for the coil goes to the distributor. Positive lead supplies power to the coil. In '65 this is a binary circuit. In the ignition "run" position, power is routed thru the ballast resistor. In the "start" position, the ballast resistor is bypassed to put full power to the coil. Down load the wiring diagram for free at www.mymopar.com, they also have the FSM for free download. Do not ever run the coil off of the alternator, it will fry itself in short order.

Dave

 

[Boyd]

That is what I thought. I cannot figure why there is a wire off the negative going into the wiring harness. Both the distributor and the alternator are on the front of the engine, so all wires should be simple.

Your reply has helped a lot. I think the lesson here is to buy a car that has the original engine in it.

 

[thethee]

Do you have points or electronic ignition?

 

[Boyd]

Do you have points or electronic ignition?

Points.

 

[RemCharger]

Does the car have a tach? Original.

 

[1970FuryConv]

Does the car have a tach? Original.

I was also thinking coil negative wire and distributor wire in the wiring harness could be because of input for a tach.

 

[Loadrunner]

My 65 New Yorker came out of AZ.

Does the car have a tach? Original.

Knowing Chrysler products probably not impossible but highly unlikely.

 

[Boyd]

Does the car have a tach? Original.

No tack.

 

[1970FuryConv]

No tack.

Did you trace the wire? Where does it lead?

 

[Boyd]

Did you trace the wire? Where does it lead?

I did, but the colors have faded. The only way I can do that for sure is to remove the plastic from the harness. I suspect that the other wire went to the regulator or the ballast, but since I went to a one wire alternator, there would be no need for that. I am going to install the new Flame Thrower coil in. The reason I am doing this is because I have a miss at higher RPMs. I should know later today if this works.

 

[Loadrunner]

I am going to install the new Flame Thrower coil in. The reason I am doing this is because I have a miss at higher RPMs. I should know later today if this works.

A coil rarely causes trouble, and even rarer would be a "high rpm miss". More likely to be "spark scatter".

All ignition faults, like a crack/carbon trace in coil or distributor cap will show itself under load, at low RPM on take off, going up hills, basically off idle.

A high RPM miss could be anything from floating valve springs - too high RPM or weak springs - to timing jumping around - loose timing chain/sloppy distributor innards like the shaft bushing and worn advance mechanism parts, to the most likely culprit, bouncing points.

None of these the coil will address or fix.

The simplest cure in this day and age would be an electronic ignition distributor swap, but think of the EMPs...

Are your points and condenser new?

Did you install them?

Is the distributor shaft loose?

Take rotor off, grab the shaft, how much side to side play does it have?

Some have dang near enough to open and close the points.

A loose "dizzy" isn't going to provide accurate high RPM firing, and neither will cheap points, look for ACCEL 20oz points/condenser for Mopar.

PS Don't lose screws down the distributor, and if you do, get it out, don't think you can just replace the missing point or condenser hold down screw, it could catch a spinning distributor advance weight inside and shear something, sometimes in the engine itself.

 

[Boyd]

A coil rarely causes trouble, and even rarer would be a "high rpm miss". More likely to be "spark scatter".

All ignition faults, like a crack/carbon trace in coil or distributor cap will show itself under load, at low RPM on take off, going up hills, basically off idle.

A high RPM miss could be anything from floating valve springs - too high RPM or weak springs - to timing jumping around - loose timing chain/sloppy distributor innards like the shaft bushing and worn advance mechanism parts, to the most likely culprit, bouncing points.

None of these the coil will address or fix.

The simplest cure in this day and age would be an electronic ignition distributor swap, but think of the EMPs...

Are your points and condenser new?

Did you install them?

Is the distributor shaft loose?

Take rotor off, grab the shaft, how much side to side play does it have?

Some have dang near enough to open and close the points.

A loose "dizzy" isn't going to provide accurate high RPM firing, and neither will cheap points, look for ACCEL 20oz points/condenser for Mopar.

PS Don't lose screws down the distributor, and if you do, get it out, don't think you can just replace the missing point or condenser hold down screw, it could catch a spinning distributor advance weight inside and shear something, sometimes in the engine itself.

Man, I have my work cut out for me! Thank you.

BTW, I have copied and printed your post and it will be by my side today!

 

[Loadrunner]

Unfortunately, the supply of aftermarket points for Mopar is really drying up, points to a conspiracy?

Plenty of cars running just fine on loose distributors, so don't throw it away because of a little wobble.

When I install points, I clean their faces with a business card or thick paper soaked in 90% running alcohol, and follow it up with just clean paper, pull the paper through the close points.

The point is to get them 100% clean of oils, or they will burn.

I install them, and for the love of Dog, don't go anywhere near them with a feeler gauge unless it's as clean as the points, but the feeler gauge is pointless.

Use your eyeballs, no point face contamination.

If you've never done this before, you should know that you have to bump the engine with remote starter, or by turning fan blade while pushing down on the belt, the distributor cam has to be in the position where the point rubbing block is on the highest peak, at the point's greatest opening, and set a tiny air gap in there, .010"-.015" is fine.

Too big a gap, not enough dwell, doesn't run right.

A tight point gap means more dwell, better running engine.

As the rubbing block wears off, the gap closes, making it run even better.

I've seen distributors at tune up time where there's hardly a visible point gap, and the engine ran like a dream, proving again how reliable Chrysler's are, and that they run fine when it looks like they shouldn't be running at all.

If you have a dwell meter, adjust it like that instead of contaminating the points with an oily feeler gauge, but I've had the best luck using no feeler gauge or dwell meter, much in the same way that setting timing by the book with a timing light rather than by ear turns your car into a dog and you immediately change it back to how it was.






AutoSpeed - Ignition coil dwell time

Everything you need to know about ignition coil charge-up

 

[Loadrunner]

Speaking of timing; Changing the point gap changes the timing by virtue of altering when the points break, early or late.

While this might seem infinitesimal on a big V8, on a single cylinder like a vintage BSA 441 Victor with "Energy Transfer" ignition, that is actually the only way to time the engine, the coil fires the millisecond the points open and this is the most critical thing, total point gap be damned, it becomes immaterial.

So if the engine runs a little different after replacing the points/condenser, go over the timing.

This is how I do timing on the side of the road with cars driving by at 70mph ;]

It helps if know distributor rotor rotation, which is clockwise on small block, counterclockwise on big block, but even even you didn't know a thing about this you'd still be ok.

Knowing this helps you pre- determine which way you're going to move to the distributor to advance or retard.

Loosen the distributor bolt, just very slightly with engine running, just enough to easily turn the distributor, you're making very fine adjustments here.

If it's hard for you to reach with a short 1/2" wrench, do yourself a huge favor and buy the appropriate typically 2 pc distributor wrench but Mopars are some of the easiest out there.

On your big block, I assume 383 as I've had a boatload of NY's in that year and '66 [they must have sold a lot of them because at one point I had found one for several friends also ;] to advance the timing you're turning the distributor clockwise because of the opposite rotor direction, so it couldn't be simpler, clockwise avances, speeds the engine up, and the other way retards, which can have a neat "breathy" exhaust note, but will make no power and cause the engine to overheat.

A good trick is to use a vacuum gauge to set the timing at the highest vacuum possible but you don't need the gauge, use your ear to find the sweet spot, LOCK IT DOWN, and drive.

Does it ping? Too much advance can cause pinging and you want no part of it, it will destroy your engines, pound the bearings end eventually melt through a piston.

Also a classic sign of too much "initial" advance is the engine fights itself trying to start, like; grunt, grunt, grunt, instead of readily firing.

When it's all right, you should be able to reach in through the window, just touch the key, and Boom, alive like Christine and ready to go out and eat some Chevys again ;]


If you have a Dodge van with small block you can reach down and move the distributor while you drive for ultimate adjustment, although if it was up to me I'd give myself a good old fashioned Advance/Retard lever on the dashboard or steering wheel a la Model T.

I had an advance/retard lever on a Lucas Magneto on a 1960 Matchless Typhoon Competition Scrambler - G80TCS - which also happened to have belonged to Evel Knievel - this is a 600cc thumper and the advance/retard lever on the handlebar was magic.

 

[Boyd]

Problem solved. As I was putting in my new coil, I noticed the negative wire from the coil, just dropped off my splices. I did follow the loose wire up to the voltage regulator. Anyway, as I was putting everything together and reviewed my list from Loadrunner, I discovered the spark plug wire off the #2 was not very tight. I removed it and reinstalled it. Cranked her up and she runs like a New Yorker!
Thank you everyone for your help. Now I am going out for a ride!

 

[1970FuryConv]

Problem solved. As I was putting in my new coil, I noticed the negative wire from the coil, just dropped off my splices. I did follow the loose wire up to the voltage regulator. Anyway, as I was putting everything together and reviewed my list from Loadrunner, I discovered the spark plug wire off the #2 was not very tight. I removed it and reinstalled it. Cranked her up and she runs like a New Yorker!
Thank you everyone for your help. Now I am going out for a ride!

Glad you found and repaired the problem! Definitely time to celebrate with a Mopar drive!

 

[polara10x500]

Bring back some meatloaf... and sum beeer'ss... Allways double check your wiring, my crimping's go awry sometimes two. Isn't it great when ya fix yer f... up's and everything falls into place.

 

[Loadrunner]

Isn't it great when ya fix yer f... up's and everything falls into place.

When you have a rig long enough and fix all the sh*t you "fixed" the first time, it is great!