Insights into the Bailout of Chrysler and Who Really Saved It

saforwardlook

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Since I worked at Chrysler for many years in Central Engineering, I found this article on the bailout of some interest, as it shows the conclusion of the Administration's auto industry advisors regarding whether they thought Chrysler could or should be saved through the bail out while there was no question that they thought GM should definitely be saved.

I know some will argue that since Chrysler is now owned by Fiat (and now called FCA or Fiat Chrysler Automobiles), it isn't really a U.S. company anymore, but in my view what matters is that the real foundation of the company is still the previous Chrysler Corporation that still employs a huge number of engineers and other workers in Michigan and elsewhere in the U.S. It contributes considerably to the economy of our country still and is the real strength of FCA, not the Fiat group.

I didn't realize that the consensus of the group was over-ridden by the President.

http://allparnews.com/index.php/2015/03/paper-explains-chrysler-bailout-opposition-28072

(not intended to be political)
 
very interesting to see how far the suppliers are depending on the big three.

I didn't know that the President made the final decision
 
The President also ordered GM to drop Saturn and either Buick or Pontiac. The decision was made to kill Pontiac because GM wanted to save the Buick name for their forway into China where Buicks were coveted.
 
The President also ordered GM to drop Saturn and either Buick or Pontiac. The decision was made to kill Pontiac because GM wanted to save the Buick name for their forway into China where Buicks were coveted.

My understanding of the events was that the consensus of the oversight committee was that GM had too many brands, and that some of them had to be cut in order to be profitable, and so that directive was given as you describe as a result of the committees' recommendation as part of the bail out agreement. Given all the costs of marketing and reforming sheet metal of essentially the same vehicles to create numerous brands was a practice that helped lead to GMs eventual failure. It worked in the past, but was no longer working with so much more competition in the market worldwide.

I personally am very glad to see GM back in the game doing better than ever with numerous award winning cars and just recently received top grades for customer satisfaction with dealership repairs. Mary Barra is a great leader. They will continue to prosper, I believe. And that is good for the U.S.
 
My words "The President also ordered..." was a very short oversimplification of what you described far more eloquently.

How do you feel about GM getting a bailout then pouring money into China?
 
No manufacturer will survive long term unless they compete in all markets of the world. Chrysler's current, also very competent, CEO has often stated that eventually there will only be about 4 major vehicle manufacturers left in the world. This is because the costs of new vehicle development continue to rise at astronomical rates, and only the very rich, high volume companies will be able to afford those costs and continue to compete. That is why FCA (Chrysler) continues to seek other companies to combine with. Unless they grow a lot more than where they are now in the market, they know they will eventually be gone.

GM also knows this, as does VW, and Toyota and it seems to me the writing is on the wall. If GM did not aggressively seek to prosper in China, the worlds leading volume market for cars, and invest in the infrastructure needed to be the best there, I would consider them irresponsible and doomed to failure. In other words, I see their foray into China as fully responsible use of the bail out money, and good for the U.S. They must make those investments or be relegated to history. The world is rapidly changing - the U.S. no longer calls all the shots like it did 50 - 75 years ago.
 
I see their foray into China as fully responsible use of the bail out money...
We could kill a case of beer and probably a bottle of something harder over that but I do respect that is a side of the coin that can be argued.
 
We could kill a case of beer and probably a bottle of something harder over that but I do respect that is a side of the coin that can be argued.

I just might take you up on that! But I am a lightweight when it comes to drinking that stuff, so I would for sure lose any debate!

In looking at the big picture 25 or more years down the road, I see GM, Ford, and Chrysler consolidating, VW, Mercedes, and BMW uniting, and Toyota, Honda, and Nissan combining, and something from China materializing (maybe in concert with Hyundai?) to form the only four remaining car companies. And with Google, Apple and others with their self driving cars and technology powerhouses wanting to make cars as well reported in recent news, I can only wonder how that will all play out? They have tons of cash. GM recently had a dispute with their shareholders over their cash hoard of some $40 billion. The shareholders wanted more dividends while GM stated they need that much money for future vehicle development. They worked out a reasonable settlement after sitting down and talking, but it gives you some idea of the stakes in the car making game. It will be very interesting to watch!
 
FIAT is a very strange corporation.
It doesn't make money ( most of the companies under its umbrella bleed money) yet it maintains its growth through acquisitions, some highly leveraged. Their bubble burst is certain by any economic standards and will be bought, probably by 1. VW, or 2. a Chinese industrialist company.
 
AFAIK, Fiat is owned in large part by one old rich family. Ferrari and Maserati have been highly profitable, at least at present I thought, and clearly, the Chrysler group is the main generator of cash flow. But the Fiat brands such as Alfa Romeo and the Fiat lineup have of course not done well. VW, which is trying to become the worlds largest volume manufacturer very much wants to buy the Alfa Romeo brand, but Sergio won't sell. In fact he wants to expand the Alfa lineup in the U.S. dramatically in the near future, and he is likely to succeed with it from the initial offerings at least. VW is growing the brand also through an unwieldy number of acquisitions (more than 10 recently as I recall reading). I can't imagine they can successfully manage so many brands under their roof when their quality is also at the bottom of every survey of long term reliability. VW seems like a house of cards, but Audi at least seems to be growing and producing good cars under their roof. They are poised to become the top luxury brand in sales worldwide.
 
I think Commando 1 has a point. FIAT really IS a very strange corporation. During the last forty or so years it has gone through some notable ups and downs saleswise. Like a roller coaster. Very much like the Chrysler corporation. At the moment FIAT itself is in deep trouble. Besides the 500 minicar there are no interesting products in the mother company's palette of products. It's the Chrysler products that are holding the FIAT nose above the surface now. The Ferrari, and Maserati are very profitable, of course. But do we know the numbers? I mean think not. - As to Sergio Marchionne, I think he may succeed for a time, at least. Every aspiring car company needs to have a car guy at the top post. Remember what happened to Chrysler under the bean counters? - And we have all read at Allpar how Marchionne ordered the new 2014 Chryslers to have their interiors upgraded before they were let out to the market. Marchionne is a car guy. And what is more, he is italian. And the italians have a habit of doing things passionately. It will help in the battle between brands. The automobile is no more a mere commodity (if it ever was so).
 
I usually read this page on my phone, which doesn't make for very easy replies, so I've been chomping at the bit to reply to this thread. First of all, I want to say it's good to be in the company of other employees (past or present). I wonder if there are any other C-body fans drawing checks with a pentastar on them? (Yes, the checks still have a pentastar... I wonder how much longer that will last? I figure since I'm one of .03% of employees still drawing an actual paper check, they hopefully never get around to updating the checks.)

Anyways, thanks for the link to the academic paper. I've only read about 10 pages into it and that was to see if it was the usual glossing-over of the problems surrounding US manufacturing. I use the term manufacturing because the problems aren't limited to just the auto industry, although the auto industry is certainly the largest manufacturing segment. The paper does not surprise me. It lays out a cursory "economics 101" explanation of the problems facing the Detroit Three (D3). If the remaining pages I haven't read touch upon the issues I am about to lay out, I promise to come back, apologize and eat my tin-foil hat.

From what I've seen the paper makes several familiar arguments which I'll refute briefly. I could go into book-level detail about each one, but I'll keep it simple since this is just an internet posting. (In my spare time I actually am working on a related book.)


  • Foreign cars good, US cars bad: If it were this simple, I would not have owned three fairly modern Mopars with 200k+ miles on them without major repairs before two were stolen and one was sold. A forth is in my driveway with 232,000 miles. A friend has a Corolla that just lost 1/2 its compression after 112k miles. Honda/Acura transmissions. Nissan Titan. Mazda rotary engines. Additionally, many foreign products simply miss their mark. Scion. Toyota Echo. Nissan Cube. Honda Crosstour. However, US manufacturers share of the US market continues to drop like a rock. Although the real reason is very complex, this is a simple truth that cannot be ignored.


  • US manufacturers too dependent upon Trucks/SUVs: True statement, but again too simplistic. The US is the only nation in the world that requires all manufactures who sell more than 400,000 vehicles to comply with an arbitrary Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) standard. You want to build a 12 mpg car in Germany? Have at it... In fact, there are some examples. However their sales will be limited by the market's willingness to buy them if fuel is taxed-up to $9 per gallon. (Feel free to import them to the US since no German manufacturer sells over 300,000 units annually.) Only in the US do we require our companies to build high MPG cars on US soil, regardless of demand, while fuel is the cheapest in the world. That's like telling McDonald's that 70% of their sales must be broccoli. The loophole has always been trucks acting as surrogates for the large cars people actually want to purchase. This is a market interference the US government created 40-years ago, and refuses to address on the demand side because it is politically unpopular.


  • US unionized labor costs are too high: This one would actually be funny if people knew the truth. If you think labor is expensive in the US, I suggest you hire someone from a western European nation to build your cars... Then you'll know the meaning of expensive + a 6 week vacation. I have a cousin who manages workers in the US and Europe. He complains that his US employees always want overtime, but no matter how much money they offer, the European arm of the company refuses to work overtime, so they have to take on the larger cost of additional hires. European labor unions carry clout that the UAW could only dream about. Korean unions take managers/management physically hostage! Japan is so heavily socialized (lifetime employment) that there scarcely exists a need for unions, although they do exist. The best deal on labor is to pay US workers nearly the same wage unionized US workers, but offer very little in heath/retirement benefits. This is another government interference in the market dating back to President Truman's post-WWII wage/price controls, when unions could only bargain for benefits rather than wages.

So now that I've offered my thoughts on the explanations given by the authors of the paper, what do I feel they missed? Only the elephant in the room which remains unaddressed and will likely never be addressed. It is:

US companies can only effectively compete with each other; on the North American Continent (NAFTA). They are disadvantaged at home and abroad when competing with manufacturers from other nations. Here are three manifestations that come to mind...


  • Outright prohibitions on direct imports such as in China. The Chinese government requires Chinese-majority partnerships with foreign companies to sell in any meaningful numbers in China. As was mentioned earlier, ignoring the Chinese market is a fatal mistake. However, the double-edged sword is creating Chinese manufacturers who will become on-par with their partner companies in very short order. Of course the US could mitigate this problem by refusing access to the wealthiest market on Earth (for now) unless the Chinese eliminate such protectionist policies.


  • Red-tape restrictions on NAFTA market imports, as are often practiced in Asian democracies. Examples: Threatened income tax audits for Koreans who purchase foreign cars on the basis they are an "excessive luxury". The Japanese practice of requiring individual inspections of individual imported vehicles in the port, even when delivered directly from the OEM (adding great expense). Rejection of these vehicles for cosmetic items, such as a paint scratch. Denial of otherwise public information, such as registration info, to foreign firms for marketing purposes on the basis of "identity theft" by foreigners. Requirements that OEMs own interests in individual Japanese dealerships. There are further examples. BTW, those restrictions don't just keep out US companies... Korean imports to Japan and vis-versa are less than 1000 units per year despite their similar markets and physical proximity.


  • Taxation restrictions more common in European nations, either as simple as massive duties on US-made cars under 30-years old, or more complex like establishing Value Added Taxes on top of the US sticker price which includes the cost of all US taxes (labor, property, etc.). For example, in 2010 a German-made VW Tiguan (small SUV) was $23,200-$33,215. In the US. A Jeep Liberty was $23,760-$28,475. Now compare those models sales prices in Germany... $38,814-$42,275 for the VW. For the Jeep, try $47,665-$57,350! I laugh when people criticize the D3 for not trying to sell more US-made vehicles in Europe... It's a wonder they sell ANYTHING in Europe. *keep in mind that GM/Ford have long-established but entirely separate companies in Europe, so Chrysler is especially hampered overseas.

OK, but how can any of this affect a US company's ability to compete against let's say, a Honda Civic, in the US? Simple. Economies of scale. Until fairly recently, (2011-ish?) a Honda Civic was not one of the products that Honda built in the US, such as the larger Accord. That means that Honda can sell and build the Civic in Japan, where high gas prices will always cause demand. When prices spike in the US, usually short-term, they can simply up the imports without any of the fixed costs incurred by a company like Chrysler which was building Neons in the US while gas was $1.10 a gallon and no one wanted them.

That means more profit on a Honda Civic and a loss on a Neon. That manifests itself in two ways... Either Honda can keep the extra profit, or it can forgo some of the profit and add more content. The Neon must be built to-a-price, and the challenges (not often met) is keeping the consumer from noticing. Now apply this basic formula and change the names to Nissan Sentra, Mazda 3, etc. and Ford Focus, Chevy Cobalt, etc. Consider that the "transplants" built in the US are always the larger, more fuel-thirsty vehicles offer by the Asian companies... US-only Sedans, Minivans and Trucks...The US Camry is larger than any other version in fact. They aren't stupid, they have their fixed costs and lower volumes on the same types of products where the D3 make their money, BUT they can adjust their small car volumes without fixed costs and spread costs across two large markets.

Even if I'm full of it, you know there is at least a grain of truth in what I've said. Have you ever heard this theory expressed in the mainstream, or even by the so-called experts who decide the fate of our manufacturing companies? Ever wonder what happened to the American consumer electronics industry? (I've got a whole chapter on that subject) Ever wonder what's going on right now in Home Appliances?

Whenever you hear a politician start to cover this ground, make sure you get a good look because he won't be around very long... i.e. Ross Perot.
 
Carmine, what did you do while employed by Ma Mopar?

It could be said they pay me for my opinion, lol. I don't want to reveal myself entirely on the interwebs, but I work in the field of internal quality reporting for a particular car line. I was also a Proving Grounds driver/mechanic in Phoenix AZ for a few years. And yes, that was an awesome job (although not always). Damn-liar ruined that when they sold the PG property for $440 million to a developer, just before dumping the company. (Wonder how I can remember that number, lol.) Luckily I landed back on my feet with a job in Detroit.

You can bet that near half-billion dollars got to Germany faster then Patton's 7th Army. Of course Chrysler wasn't the only one getting screwed on that deal... Take a look at this Toll Brother's Homes development as of last April:

IMG-20140411-03819_zps0964bbf5.jpg


Here's the view standing on my Hyundai rental car (which I beat mercilessly), looking over the fence. Back when this place was hummin', that would have gotten you shot (lol, maybe not shot, but at least arrested).

IMG-20140411-03818_zps58872788.jpg
 
Thank you for that Carmine, a unique look from a insiders point of view. I agree with you and there is no doubt that damn-liar (love that btw)did everything they could, except plung a knife into every Mopar enthusiasts heart, to kill the co.
 
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