Gerald Morris
Senior Member
Yes, you MUST pull the wheel. It's really quite easy, with a good tool. Be damned sure you get one first.
Keep us posted.
Intermittent horn
- Thread starter darth_linux
- Start date
Yes, you MUST pull the wheel. It's really quite easy, with a good tool. Be damned sure you get one first.
Keep us posted.
darth_linux
Senior Member
Aside from the broken turn signal canceling cam, everything in here looks OK. I did polish up the copper ring on the underside of the steering wheel. I’m gonna put it back together and see what happens but I’m pretty sure it’s not gonna work.
Gerald Morris
Senior Member
Buy a new turn signal switch. Be GLAD you have the least expensive, MOPAR variety. If the copper surface of the horn ring has too many oxidation spots going through the old layer, then get some copper foil tape, the conductive on BOTH sides variety, and resurface that ring. DO NOT USE NORMAL OR DIELECTRIC GREASE when reassembling the wheel, but rather CONDUCTIVE grease. This will insure good conductance. You might use graphite here, which is adequately conductive. Clean the REST of that filth out. There is some probability that your horn switch lead, which is part of the TSS* bundle, might be compromised also. You will need to get down to the bottom of the steering column tube to attach the new switch anyway. When the turn signal cam breaks, its usually a Good Idea to replace the whole damned switch, OR, you can, if the wiring is GOOD, just replace that cancelling cam. Those have been grossly overpriced by sundry bloodsuckers as a rule, so, unless you find a vendor who actually still gets them from a good factory, just get the switch and have new stuff all the way. It's conceivable that the little spring backed copper contact rod sticking up in the old switch is worn down a bit also. New is Good here.
darth_linux
Senior Member
The copper rod on mine is actually a wheel! Thanks for the reply.
Gerald Morris
Senior Member
True enough, in the OLD mechanism it is, BUT, you likely will find in the REPLACEMENT, the manufacturer will have placed a simple rod. I LIKE the IDEA of a little rolling wheel, in theory, if it can be KEPT AT ITS PROPER DIAMETER TO ADEQUATELY CONTACT THE DISC ABOVE, BUT over the course of nigh 60 years, I suspect it isn't so conductive; and may well not be rolling in its little crib down there. (Yes, I saw it in the pic.) OK, use GRAPHITE to lubricate this portion of your NEW switch, whether you get another cool little wheel or the more pedestrian simple rod poking up into the copper disc. That disc needs attention. Make DAMNED SURE the copper hasn't oxidized away. Use FINE steel wool, or a soft wire brush, preferably brass, to burnish the copper. If it's worn away, resort to the copper foil tape, making sure to use the stuff certified conductive on both sides. I've saved PLENTY of the original circuit board components in both my '66 and '68 Newports using bits of the copper foil tape where warranted.
darth_linux
Senior Member
You can see in picture 1 the disc as it came out - oxidized. In picture 2 I have used 0000 steel wool and the copper is nice and shiny. There is a "shadow" of a line where the wheel rolls, but no wear. The car has less than 80K on it.
None of these problems existed before I removed the wiper motor and its wiring harness to address some rust holes. When I replaced the wiper motor and attendant wires, I had no horn, so I am going back to the wiring connections at the firewall and looking for something that isn't seated fully/correctly. I don't think the TS switch or horn wiring through the column is to blame. I think it's ME who is to blame for borking something up at the bulkhead connector.
More news next week when I get to it.
Gerald Morris
Senior Member
This certainly CAN occur. The bulkhead connector is a fiddled ***** to deal with when old. Replace it when you can, though
THAT requires care too.
OK, you've done all you can with the horn switch. If you get intermittent horn off the horn LEAD, then clearly, its neither the contacts or the TSS. Maybe you can pull a fresh wire through the firewall, bypass the bulkhead connector mess, and connect it to the horn lead at the bottom of your steering column. Do so, see if you get a consistent good honk thus. If so, make such your new horn lead!
I for one refuse to trust the bulkhead connector for my POWER or CHARGING connections. The former I run straight through a rubber grommetted hole in the firewall, the latter I keep totally out of the passenger compartment. This simplifies matters nicely.
darth_linux
Senior Member
UPDATE: 10/17/2025
The horn works now. Not exactly sure why. After cleaning the copper ring, replacing the hockey puck and insuring the ground "spring" was connecting to both sides of the rag joint, adding a little lube to the spring mechanism that contacts the horn ring, and double checking it wasn't the relay or wiring, it still wasn't working.
I was going to "back probe" connection W on the firewall side of the bulkhead connector but the H3 wire coming out of it has some sort of rubber "block" that prevents that from happening, so I just pushed on that wire and that area of the connector to make sure it was "tight."
Then, the horn works just fine. I honestly think it's time to unplug the 3 connections from the bulkhead connector, clean out the old grease, "maybe" shine up the terminals, re-grease and reassemble. I think it was just slightly moved out of position and pushing on it renewed the connection. I'm not sure. It doesn't really make any sense since I didn't unplug-replug or do anything else substantial.
It's a GREMLIN!
Anyhow, I've read that you SHOULDN'T sand or wire brush the bulkhead Packard terminals because they have some kind of coating that would be removed. Is that true?
Also, di-electric grease for the bulkhead connectors (silicone, not petroleum based), but just around the edge/lip of the connection, NOT "packed" into every nook and cranny, right?
I've read so many opinions about this subject, I don't know who to believe anymore. Leaning towards @CBODY67 of course, since he's never steered me wrong . . .
The horn works now. Not exactly sure why. After cleaning the copper ring, replacing the hockey puck and insuring the ground "spring" was connecting to both sides of the rag joint, adding a little lube to the spring mechanism that contacts the horn ring, and double checking it wasn't the relay or wiring, it still wasn't working.
I was going to "back probe" connection W on the firewall side of the bulkhead connector but the H3 wire coming out of it has some sort of rubber "block" that prevents that from happening, so I just pushed on that wire and that area of the connector to make sure it was "tight."
Then, the horn works just fine. I honestly think it's time to unplug the 3 connections from the bulkhead connector, clean out the old grease, "maybe" shine up the terminals, re-grease and reassemble. I think it was just slightly moved out of position and pushing on it renewed the connection. I'm not sure. It doesn't really make any sense since I didn't unplug-replug or do anything else substantial.
It's a GREMLIN!
Anyhow, I've read that you SHOULDN'T sand or wire brush the bulkhead Packard terminals because they have some kind of coating that would be removed. Is that true?
Also, di-electric grease for the bulkhead connectors (silicone, not petroleum based), but just around the edge/lip of the connection, NOT "packed" into every nook and cranny, right?
I've read so many opinions about this subject, I don't know who to believe anymore. Leaning towards @CBODY67 of course, since he's never steered me wrong . . .
Gerald Morris
Senior Member
I suspect you have a combination of factors which bugger the horn circuit, like a good many other ~60 yr old electrical contacts. I avoid ******* w that bulkhead connector unless something burns in it usually, or otherwise clearly fails. My customary approach when something fails is to re-route it through the firewall, sans the bulkhead connector, like cop cars and other emergency vehicles back then. Every joint makes another failure point.
Tell us how well your horn works next Friday. Don't touch anything in the interim. I think your housekeeping on the horn ring stuff helped reduce the number of active failure points, so for now, the thing honks when it should.
I had to repair the horn circuit in my D150 this past summer. The shitty cushion w the little strips of copper separated by a thinlayer of foam rubber and nylon mech failed, causing the horn to honk until the fuse popped or battery died. I removed the cushion, installed a $10 horn button made in Ho Fat Fuk Mo, by the PLA, cleaned off the contacts on the plugin horn relay, which contributed to further malfunction, and now can encourage drivers to attend to their DRIVING, instead of their iPudz, AmHrroids, or Blunts. Horn honks reliably.
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Seems like I recall seeing some later models which used a ground wire to cross the gap between the steering shaft and the hockey puck, and the steering gear interface? An insulated wire with eyelets that went over a pair of mounting studs.
There are some times when "holding your mouth just right" does the trick, it seems.
Glad it is all working now!
CBODY67
There are some times when "holding your mouth just right" does the trick, it seems.
Glad it is all working now!
CBODY67
darth_linux
Senior Member
I think the issue is, to quote Eric O. from South Main Auto, "pin fitment" in the bulkhead connector. We're getting signal to the relay, we have a good ground, and we're getting load to the horns, but the apparent looseness of the connector seems to be the problem. I'll leave it be for a week to see if anything else changes . . .
With some terminals, they are tin plated and you don't want to remove that. The terminals in our cars are brass and you really can't hurt them doing that, but I like to use Deoxit to clean them up. https://www.amazon.com/CAIG-Laborat...it&qid=1760791129&sprefix=de-o,aps,215&sr=8-5
You'll probably loose the bottle before you use it up. LOL.
Ahh... Understanding the dielectric grease is non-conductive. Very good!
Glad you got it figured out, at least for now!
I would recommend Corrosion-X to both clean and protect anything electrical. It isn't cheap but it works fantastic. I use it boating and often times just cleaning connectors with it fixes the problem until you can something apart to clean it mechanically. And it lasts a long time. I also find it easier to clean up if you ever need to pull something back apart.
https://a.co/d/fTZ4zJk
I would recommend Corrosion-X to both clean and protect anything electrical. It isn't cheap but it works fantastic. I use it boating and often times just cleaning connectors with it fixes the problem until you can something apart to clean it mechanically. And it lasts a long time. I also find it easier to clean up if you ever need to pull something back apart.
https://a.co/d/fTZ4zJk
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