Manual swap

Reece Stephens

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I've been planning to swap to a manual for awhile, has anyone ever swapped an A833 4 speed into their 1967 Chrysler C body, that came with a 727? Can the stock automatic crossmember be modified to work? Can aftermarket B body crossmember work in a C body?
 
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Year and make? Early is easier, late is harder, but doable. Lot's of guys have done this with earlier cars and only one successful with a formal (that I'm aware of) but you need to be specific or you aren't going to get any help. I even suggest changing the title to reflect the year.
 
Year and make? Early is easier, late is harder, but doable. Lot's of guys have done this with earlier cars and only one successful with a formal (that I'm aware of) but you need to be specific or you aren't going to get any help. I even suggest changing the title to reflect the year.
It's a 1967 Chrysler Newport, I know Newports never came with 4 speeds from the factory, any advice would be helpful
 
It's a 1967 Chrysler Newport, I know Newports never came with 4 speeds from the factory, any advice would be helpful
Yes, but you could get a 3 speed manual trans. Although they would be kind of rare, but that means there's stuff out there to for the clutch linkage... and that is the hard part.

I'm never done the conversion, so I'm kind of out, but have followed a few here and there. My first suggestion is to download a parts manual and buy a factory service manual. You can start figuring out what you need and what crosses over from other body styles. Your crossmember should be the same, so that's easy.

Download a parts manual here:
Parts Manuals – MyMopar

Some FSM here, but not yours. Dodge and Plymouths may give you some info and hey... They are free to download.
Service Manuals – MyMopar
 
Yes, but you could get a 3 speed manual trans. Although they would be kind of rare, but that means there's stuff out there to for the clutch linkage... and that is the hard part.

I'm never done the conversion, so I'm kind of out, but have followed a few here and there. My first suggestion is to download a parts manual and buy a factory service manual. You can start figuring out what you need and what crosses over from other body styles. Your crossmember should be the same, so that's easy.

Download a parts manual here:
Parts Manuals – MyMopar

Some FSM here, but not yours. Dodge and Plymouths may give you some info and hey... They are free to download.
Service Manuals – MyMopar
I was thinking of running a hydraulic clutch assembly to simplify this swap, I did find a 3 speed manual for sale, but I wanted an A833 OD so I could step up to a 3.23 rear gear and still maintain lower rpm on the highway while having better acceleration around town.
 
The only real issue with the swap is clutch actuation.

The trans crossmember is the same regardless of transmission.

There actually was a company making repop 4 speed floor humps for C bodies some years ago, but hardly anyone bought them, so they don't make them any more. I would guess that it's not too difficult to modify a B body hump to fit.

4 speed trans was a factory option in '67 on the Chrysler 300, which is basically the same as a Newport.

Jeff
 
4 speed trans was a factory option in '67 on the Chrysler 300, which is basically the same as a Newport.

Wow, I had to go find that one... I never knew it and would have said no way... Learn something new every day....

Makes me wonder how many were made and if there's any left.

67_Chrysler_Features_Options_0021.jpg
 
... I wanted an A833 OD so I could step up to a 3.23 rear gear and still maintain lower rpm on the highway while having better acceleration around town.
I highly suspect that using an OD version would need more gear than a 3.23 (which would mean about 2.26 in OD) so you can USE the OD at normal posted highway speeds. I believe that some versions had a low gear of approx the same as the TF, as did some of the 1971 3spds? Which OD gearset are you considering, from which application? Which cam and intake are on the motor now?

Just curious,
CBODY67
 
Wow, I had to go find that one... I never knew it and would have said no way... Learn something new every day....

Makes me wonder how many were made and if there's any left.

I've only ever seen two. Both were Daffodil Yellow with black interiors. One was a really low option car without a vinyl top. That car was for sale in Jersey on eBay, and eventually made it's way to New England, where the drivetrain was pulled and the shell advertised on Craigslist as a parts car. I'm pretty sure that one's been scrapped. The second was well optioned, with power windows and a black vinyl top. This one was in real nice shape and for sale on eBay in the 20-25K range, if I remember correctly. The eBay auctions were both around 15 years ago. The shell of the first car was for sale less than 10 years ago.

Jeff
 
Wow, I had to go find that one... I never knew it and would have said no way... Learn something new every day....

Makes me wonder how many were made and if there's any left.

View attachment 457018
There are actually 2 examples out there that I know of, both TNT 2-door hardtops. They can't have made more than a handful.

As far as the swap, I would think the biggest hurdle would be sourcing or fabricating the pedals. The parts alone will run in the thousands. As much as I love manual cars, with all the headaches & expense involved I would stick with the auto, the 727 is a very nice transmission.
 
I highly suspect that using an OD version would need more gear than a 3.23 (which would mean about 2.26 in OD) so you can USE the OD at normal posted highway speeds. I believe that some versions had a low gear of approx the same as the TF, as did some of the 1971 3spds? Which OD gearset are you considering, from which application? Which cam and intake are on the motor now?

Just curious,
CBODY67

I'm going to disagree on this one.

As long as you're not running some crazy radical cam, I'm sure you'd be fine with 3.23 and overdrive. Especially when you factor in typical highway speeds these days. The 383 should have enough low end torque to cruise along at a pretty low rpm. You would not want to over-carb in this situation. 600 cfm max on a 383 to keep the air velocity sufficient for good atomization.

The standard set up in many of the 1994-96 GM full size cars is a 2.56 rear end ratio paired with the 4L60E transmission, which has a .7:1 overdrive, for a final ratio of 1.79:1.

Jeff
 
I'm going to disagree on this one.

As long as you're not running some crazy radical cam, I'm sure you'd be fine with 3.23 and overdrive. Especially when you factor in typical highway speeds these days. The 383 should have enough low end torque to cruise along at a pretty low rpm. You would not want to over-carb in this situation. 600 cfm max on a 383 to keep the air velocity sufficient for good atomization.

The standard set up in many of the 1994-96 GM full size cars is a 2.56 rear end ratio paired with the 4L60E transmission, which has a .7:1 overdrive, for a final ratio of 1.79:1.

Jeff

There is ONE difference between the GM vehicles referenced and the proposed 4smOD and 3.23 gears. Actually TWO differences. The main one is electronic fuel injection, whether throttle body or port. The other one is the fact that the GM vehicles mentioned have an automatic transmission with electronic computer controls.

The EFI is signiticant as it meters fuel regardless of the air flow going through the motor. Rather than the carb relying upon intake manifold air flow to pull the fuel out of the venturis. This is one of the reasons for the customers raving about how much better their 5.7L TBI motors ran than their old carb'd motors, but by the time for their first free oil change, they were complaining about fuel economy. Why? Because with each throttle movement the computer adds fuel to the mix, rather than the air flow having to pull the fiuel from the venturis AFTER the throttle was openned.

The computer-controlled automatics are significant in that they will not let the engine lug, but will first unlock the lock-up torque converter and then downshift as needed under loads. This happens seemlessly rather than the driver having to be sensitive enough to do it, as would be the case with a manual transmission. Respectfully so.

When it was popular to install the THM700 OD automatic in the place of a THM350 automatic, almost all of them had a 3.08 or higher-geared rear axle ratio. What those people ended up having to do was install something in the range of a 3.55 (or lower) rear axle ratio (on their carb'd 5.7L V-8s). After they discovered that they couldn't use OD until over 70mph.

Almost all of the recent GM piclup trucks have taller tires, direct-injection, and the approx 3.23 axle ratio with the 6-speed automatics. Cruise rpm at 70mph is right at 1700rpm. More throttle and it kicks out of 6th and goes down about 2 gears until the need for power is gone, when it goes back into its normal 6th gear configuration. Even a 6.0L box truck ran 1700rpm at 70mph, but didn't get better fuel economy than about 14mpg average on the road.

Remember, too, that the old 3-speed OD manual trans cars usually had a 3.70-area rear axle ratio and 7.50-14 tires. Which was back when most highways were two-lane and 60mph speed limits.

Now, there was one model year when GM was seeking better CAFE from their 1/2ton pickups and came out with their "Special Economy Truck" option package. NO factory a/c, OD manual trans, 5.0L V-8, detonation limiter ignition, P205/75-15 tires, and something like a 2.56 rear axle ratio. We had aftermarket a/c put in them. In other words, not a really nice Silverado, but more like "Work Truck" with some mpg tweaks. The ones I drove did run pretty good, but OD could not be used until about 70mph or so. IF a hill happened, it was downshift time (as an automatic would do by itself). These trucks worked well enough on the chassis dyno to get the extra 2 mpg GM needed (compared to a normal 5.0L THM700 combination), but they also bought GM some time to get things sorted out better for the next model year's pickups. Understand, too, that they had spreadbord QJet 4bbls, too, which combined with the lower gears in the lower trans gears, worked pretty well with the shorter tires for off-line performance. But when the detonation sensor wires shorted to ground on the rh exhaust manifold, they did good to pull themselves up a moderate hill in 3rd gear at 55mph, by observation.

NOT to say that a 383 and 4smOD could not make a good combination, BUT with the correct axle ratio (to not lug the engine at lower highway speeds), carb size (500-600cfm), intake manifold, and CAM (something like "idle to 4000rpm" for very good low-to-mid range torque, for better throttle response on the road in OD). Then basically build a 4000rpm motor that will make more rpm with a better dual exhaust system . . . "a torque motor that rpms". AND it might well be that with the old 252 degree cam, a modern Edelbrock Performer, with a smaller AVS2, with HP manifolds and a 2.25" dual exhaust might well be closer to this than not, even with the normal 2.76 rear axle and a normal 4-speed trans (non-OD). Fuel economy gains would come from the manual trans being more efficient than a TF and the modern carb and intake.

One other observation . . . a friend bought a '69 Buick Wildct 4dr hardtop from the orig owner in AZ. It had the 430 V-8, power steering, a/c, and a 3-speed manual trans (with 3.08 rear axle). The first owner ordered it that way. Obviously for lots of steady-state highway driving in AZ? BUT my friend soon discovered that the automatic trans was "a pain" in DFW region traffic (and all of the construction or accident-related stop and go traffic on the freeways). AND he likes to find manual trans Buicks, too. Or anything else with a clutch pedal in it. But he does not like to drive them in metro traffic. Too much "clutch action", I suspect.

I kinow that some perceive that they desire a manual trans for the performance/sporty aspect of things. Plus the exclusivity of it all. Nothing wrong with that! Just that sometimes such a project can end up not meeting expectations in all respects, without making other changes to make things work better. By observation, some of my friends seem to be "at one" with the 4-speed cars they have had in the past, which is fine, but they came with the trans already in them from the factory. Me? I can change atf pretty well and that can be less expensive than a clutch set-up. Which was my final decision to order my then-new '77 Camaro LT with a THM350 rather than a 4-speed manual trans. To me, much neater to just "floor it" for a two-lane blacktop pass than to get staged in a lower gear to make my move to pass a slower vehicle (when possible). But cruising down the Interstate at 75+mph, no big deal, either way.

Just some thoughts and observations,
CBODY67
 
Pedal assembly from 65 to 68 is the same on all C body.
Most pedal assembly are for manual brake cars. Power brake pedal is different.
You have to search for pedals. Seek out a 3 on the tree car. Get everything.
It's the trans tunnel hump that dont hardly exist.
If you're thinking OD 833 something like 3.73 or 3.91 or even 4.10 is way to go. Gear spacing in od units isn't designed for performance.
With non OD 833 and 2.76 gears you will be riding the clutch to get the boat rolling from a stop.
Looks to me like c body 4 speed cars mostly got 3.23 gears. 3.55 was available I think.
My advise is to round up the parts before tearing your car apart.
Its a easy swap if you have all the parts.
 
1 more thought.
If you're going with the original clutch linkage you need to weld the little bracket on the frame to hold the torque tube/z bar.
The engine has to be removed to do this properly
 
I'm going to disagree on this one.

As long as you're not running some crazy radical cam, I'm sure you'd be fine with 3.23 and overdrive. Especially when you factor in typical highway speeds these days. The 383 should have enough low end torque to cruise along at a pretty low rpm. You would not want to over-carb in this situation. 600 cfm max on a 383 to keep the air velocity sufficient for good atomization.

The standard set up in many of the 1994-96 GM full size cars is a 2.56 rear end ratio paired with the 4L60E transmission, which has a .7:1 overdrive, for a final ratio of 1.79:1.

Jeff
My 383 has the stock cam, and in running a holley street avenger 600
 
I've done this conversion on a '68 Chrysler 300 with a 440 TNT and LOVE it! Here's the basics:
-A833 OD from a 2 WD truck. Crossmember same for auto and manual trans. Same with driveshaft.
-Lucked into 2 sets of pedals in a junkyard in Wyoming. One set for manual brakes and the other for power brakes. Used power brake set and switched my power brake booster and master cylinder for one from an A-body. Bolted right in. I still have the manual pedals and could be convinced to sell.
-Bellhousing from a '65 Fury. I had a machine shop expand the opening to the 4.805" bearing retainer size and also had them turn down the 5.125" OD retainer to match.
-Found tranny hump in local junkyard from a '65 Sport Fury.
-Used an A-body 4 speed shifter, boot, and trim ring.
-Bought brand new carpet set for a 4 speed equipped car from that era.
-Installed a reverse indicator light on the lower dash. Also used mini starter for extra room.
-I've swapped a few speedometer gears, but am still fine tuning the speedometer.
-My car has 3.23 gears and cruises just fine. Plan is to upgrade to 3.55s with Suregrip at some point in the future.
I've documented all my parts and can send a list if you're interested. PM me.
 
Pedal assembly from 65 to 68 is the same on all C body.
Most pedal assembly are for manual brake cars. Power brake pedal is different.
You have to search for pedals. Seek out a 3 on the tree car. Get everything.
It's the trans tunnel hump that dont hardly exist.
If you're thinking OD 833 something like 3.73 or 3.91 or even 4.10 is way to go. Gear spacing in od units isn't designed for performance.
With non OD 833 and 2.76 gears you will be riding the clutch to get the boat rolling from a stop.
Looks to me like c body 4 speed cars mostly got 3.23 gears. 3.55 was available I think.
My advise is to round up the parts before tearing your car apart.
Its a easy swap if you have all the parts.
My car does have 2.76s in the rear end, it's an absolute dog, especially given that it's also a low compression 2 barrel motor. I'm planning on stepping up to 3.23s at the very least, possibly even 3.55s. I've begun searching for some of the cheaper parts such as the pedal assembly, I think I can modify a B body hump to work. For the clutch, I'm thinking of running a hydraulic clutch assembly to simplify linkage.
 
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