jollyjoker
Active Member
As Ross described in post #28, here I where I found the blown in-line fuse that was causing all of my problems (65 Dodge FSM).
Map Light Stays On
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Mick
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Jollyjoker, this is what that area looks like in my FSM.
So far, I have:
1. Removed/checked fuses 2 and 3 (Q3).
2. Repaired corroded/burned Q3 terminal and wire in fuse block, but not X1 (red/cigar lighter), or M1 (pink/dome). Not sure how to pull that end of the fuse terminal off.
3. Disconnected cigar lighter, then headlight switch. This did not affect symptom of door lights staying on with doors closed.
Fuses are functioning correctly and are correct amp.
As I have been advised, thinking one of those Q3 feeds has a break or is rubbing adjacent wire, but the symptoms (door lights/plug in voltmeter losing power) does not occur on initial cold start up.
EXACTLY where I found mine. Weird!!
Mick
Active Member
Ross, I don't see an inline fuse on mine, but you and jollyjoker had issues in the same area?
Yes. This is where it gets strange, as the fuse is NOT indicated in the service manual's wiring diagrams. You may well have an inline fuse somewhere in your feed(s) to the accessory lighting in the cabin.
The head scratcher for me is the intermittency though - the fact that it does not display the issue when the car is first started.
Does your car have Sentinel or Auto-dimming head-lighting? There are a number of accessory circuits that are run through/off the headlight switch. I don't know if the switch is different with Sentinel than without, but additionally there are extra parts tied into that whole shebang, including the delay timer and the photocell.
If there's a lot of goo/dust/dirt on that multi connector that could have an issue.
The pink wire that's shown as being above the corroded one in your fuse box - that's typically a constant hot cabin lighting circuit wire. The corroded wire looks like it is red with a white tracer. If so, that I believe is a hot feed as well, and will run through the bulkhead connectors on the firewall to a terminal block with a fusible link or two attached - again, to feed things like horns, headlight relay, etc. If that is corroded, as it heats up due to resistance it will cause issues. Here's a pic of my red w/white tracer wire on the firewall:
You need to fix the corrosion there at the fuse box, and as well, check the bulkhead and eliminate any there. If you haven't done the various MAD bypass procedures for headlights and other constant hots that run through that bulkhead, now's the time. You may be unpleasantly surprised as to what you find there.
The head scratcher for me is the intermittency though - the fact that it does not display the issue when the car is first started.
Does your car have Sentinel or Auto-dimming head-lighting? There are a number of accessory circuits that are run through/off the headlight switch. I don't know if the switch is different with Sentinel than without, but additionally there are extra parts tied into that whole shebang, including the delay timer and the photocell.
If there's a lot of goo/dust/dirt on that multi connector that could have an issue.
The pink wire that's shown as being above the corroded one in your fuse box - that's typically a constant hot cabin lighting circuit wire. The corroded wire looks like it is red with a white tracer. If so, that I believe is a hot feed as well, and will run through the bulkhead connectors on the firewall to a terminal block with a fusible link or two attached - again, to feed things like horns, headlight relay, etc. If that is corroded, as it heats up due to resistance it will cause issues. Here's a pic of my red w/white tracer wire on the firewall:
You need to fix the corrosion there at the fuse box, and as well, check the bulkhead and eliminate any there. If you haven't done the various MAD bypass procedures for headlights and other constant hots that run through that bulkhead, now's the time. You may be unpleasantly surprised as to what you find there.
Mick
Active Member
Again, these issues popped up on reinstall of the instrument panel and blowing A1A fusible link, which is when my ammeter died. Could not find a mark on it, front or back.
And of course, the interior lights/cigar lighter issue cropped up then, too.
I forgot to answer your sentinel question. It does not.
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Hmmm... the ammeter thing is a clue.
The ammeter failed, the fusible link burnt, and you temporarily installed a voltmeter in place of the ammeter, which also subsequently died too, yes?
What about simply bypassing the gauge altogether? It's literally a "flow meter", so if I have it right, a quality junction block will suffice (please dbl check with a qualified auto electric person first to ensure I'm not leading you astray!). This will allow you to see if those symptoms disappear, and will tell you where the origin of the problem is.
The ammeter may be the issue - the connection(s) may fail as the circuit warms up.
Just throwing out ideas here...
The ammeter failed, the fusible link burnt, and you temporarily installed a voltmeter in place of the ammeter, which also subsequently died too, yes?
What about simply bypassing the gauge altogether? It's literally a "flow meter", so if I have it right, a quality junction block will suffice (please dbl check with a qualified auto electric person first to ensure I'm not leading you astray!). This will allow you to see if those symptoms disappear, and will tell you where the origin of the problem is.
The ammeter may be the issue - the connection(s) may fail as the circuit warms up.
Just throwing out ideas here...
Just squeeze the sides together gently (sans fuse) and it will push out the rear.
Mick
Active Member
I should have been more specific. The voltmeter plugs into the cigarette lighter and behaves normally on cold start. Then, it starts putting out strange numbers before going completely blank. Works fine in my other vehicle.
Any and all ideas welcome!
Mick
Active Member
Ah! Thank you, sir.
OK, so ditch the voltmeter to reduce any potential confusion, and see if it's possible to completely (temporarily) bypass the ammeter, and see if the problems go away. I am thinking this is where the problem lies.
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Mick
Active Member
I will be on it shortly!
live4theking
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Is the car running when it warms up and the voltmeter fails? Did you bypass the ampmeter already?
Mick
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Yes, and I haven't done the bypass.
live4theking
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If, the car is still running when the voltmeter stops working then I would say the ampmeter is still working.
Or it has failed via a short and not a open.
Or it has failed via a short and not a open.
Mick
Active Member
Great point.
Mick
Active Member
Does this look like heat discoloration on the front terminal to anybody?
Yes. Possibly the beginning of heat damage from arcing. Is that a major current carrier terminal? Your circuit diagram should tell you.
Check that there is a good connection between that terminal the female reciprocal connector - you may need to extract the female from the block and clean it up, and squeeze it so it makes a more positive connection to that terminal.
This may be where the issue lies... looking more closely at your picture, that terminal I believe is the feed to the dash lights and its rheostat, which if there's a problem will possibly back-flow through your door/courtesy lights as they're connected through that circuit when you twist it to the full on detent in the headlight switch.
Check that there is a good connection between that terminal the female reciprocal connector - you may need to extract the female from the block and clean it up, and squeeze it so it makes a more positive connection to that terminal.
This may be where the issue lies... looking more closely at your picture, that terminal I believe is the feed to the dash lights and its rheostat, which if there's a problem will possibly back-flow through your door/courtesy lights as they're connected through that circuit when you twist it to the full on detent in the headlight switch.
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Mick
Active Member
Thanks. That one "E1" is the instrument/dome/tail/stop feed, according to the FSM.
Ross is correct. That is a terminal for your dash lights.
The dome function works like this:
A ground signal comes into the switch on terminal"D". As you rotate your knob all the way counterclockwise you will feel a click. On the front of the switch, below the "D" terminal you can see a small lever. As the knob is rotated a part of the ceramic rheostat holder pushes that lever up. On the inside of the switch that lever closes a contact that sends the ground signal from "D" to the metal case of the headlight switch (which is grounded to your dash, when installed). When that happens (in theory, at least) the ground circuit is now complete for your dome light.
If you disconnect the wiring from your switch and you still have the problem you have eliminated the headlight switch as a possible cause.
The dome function works like this:
A ground signal comes into the switch on terminal"D". As you rotate your knob all the way counterclockwise you will feel a click. On the front of the switch, below the "D" terminal you can see a small lever. As the knob is rotated a part of the ceramic rheostat holder pushes that lever up. On the inside of the switch that lever closes a contact that sends the ground signal from "D" to the metal case of the headlight switch (which is grounded to your dash, when installed). When that happens (in theory, at least) the ground circuit is now complete for your dome light.
If you disconnect the wiring from your switch and you still have the problem you have eliminated the headlight switch as a possible cause.
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