Don Stolfi
Member
Great pics!
Medina, a 1971 T-code Monaco
- Thread starter ayilar
- Start date
@71Polara383 has been taking good care of Medina. The beautiful pictures he posted a couple of weeks ago were taken during a test-drive after the tune-up. In his words, the car is now running smoothly and "he's fallen in love with the car all over again."
Next on the menu was replacing the original engine mounts, which were showing stress marks and cracks. Following @saforwardlook's recommendation, I decided to bite the bullet and buy Schumacher Magnum Poly Locs. They are expensive ($217 incl. S&H and tax) but, in Steve's and Wyatt's common opinion, the rest of the car will likely disintegrate before these need replacing.
Steve had recommended both the Schumachers and DynaTech Engineering's MityMounts: both of them have an overlocking internal set of metal tabs that "allows the rubber to expand, but not beyond about one inch before they lock and don't allow the engine to go any higher" (and slam the underside of the hood), "thus performing the previous duty of the short chains prior to 1970." Another friend's recent experience with Chinese repops, that sell for much less, suggests that the latter don't hold up very well at all (my understanding is that such mounts may last only a year or two IF one is lucky: my friend's just failed before the warranty even expired!) -- that is why I bought quality mounts that cannot fail ever.
In fact, I bought both the Mity and the Schumacher mounts. I decided to use the Schumacher set on Medina. The MityMounts (somewhat cheaper at $149 with shipping and tax, and supposedly smoother-riding than the Schumachers) will go on an Imperial or a Chrysler in the coming year.
With the new mounts in hand, Wyatt made the replacement yesterday. Turns out that doing so without removing the engine was a real pain. It took him more time than the three hours he'd initially expected. The bolts on the engine were just not turning easily, plus there is minimal room to get any tool on the bolts. And when one does get them on, one can barely turn them. That's the bad news: the good news is he got them on, and the car feels much more solid. Can’t wait to try them at CATL!
Below are pictures for reference:
1. the old mounts after Wyatt removed then, showing compression and stress marks/cracks;
2. the bolts that Wyatt took out, before he cleaned them up (they were hard to remove; there are 8 bolts, but the Schumacher set includes two bolts so he took out 8 and put 6 back in);
3. the bolts after cleaning with oil and wire brush on a drill (Also used his impact to help speed the process of cleaning the threads up. Tightened and loosened until they turned freely by hand. Then installing is much easier):
4. here is a comparison of before/after cleaning:
5. finally, here are the shiny new mounts, on their support before installation:
Bottom line: it's do-able, as Wyatt demonstrated, but one could have had the engine out quicker than doing the mounts and at that time fixed every single 50 year old gasket + cleaned up and degreased everything. Lesson learned for the next car: I will bite the bullet and listen to Wyatt, get the engine out and do everything at once.
Next are the U-joints — stay tuned!
Next on the menu was replacing the original engine mounts, which were showing stress marks and cracks. Following @saforwardlook's recommendation, I decided to bite the bullet and buy Schumacher Magnum Poly Locs. They are expensive ($217 incl. S&H and tax) but, in Steve's and Wyatt's common opinion, the rest of the car will likely disintegrate before these need replacing.
Steve had recommended both the Schumachers and DynaTech Engineering's MityMounts: both of them have an overlocking internal set of metal tabs that "allows the rubber to expand, but not beyond about one inch before they lock and don't allow the engine to go any higher" (and slam the underside of the hood), "thus performing the previous duty of the short chains prior to 1970." Another friend's recent experience with Chinese repops, that sell for much less, suggests that the latter don't hold up very well at all (my understanding is that such mounts may last only a year or two IF one is lucky: my friend's just failed before the warranty even expired!) -- that is why I bought quality mounts that cannot fail ever.
In fact, I bought both the Mity and the Schumacher mounts. I decided to use the Schumacher set on Medina. The MityMounts (somewhat cheaper at $149 with shipping and tax, and supposedly smoother-riding than the Schumachers) will go on an Imperial or a Chrysler in the coming year.
With the new mounts in hand, Wyatt made the replacement yesterday. Turns out that doing so without removing the engine was a real pain. It took him more time than the three hours he'd initially expected. The bolts on the engine were just not turning easily, plus there is minimal room to get any tool on the bolts. And when one does get them on, one can barely turn them. That's the bad news: the good news is he got them on, and the car feels much more solid. Can’t wait to try them at CATL!
Below are pictures for reference:
1. the old mounts after Wyatt removed then, showing compression and stress marks/cracks;
2. the bolts that Wyatt took out, before he cleaned them up (they were hard to remove; there are 8 bolts, but the Schumacher set includes two bolts so he took out 8 and put 6 back in);
3. the bolts after cleaning with oil and wire brush on a drill (Also used his impact to help speed the process of cleaning the threads up. Tightened and loosened until they turned freely by hand. Then installing is much easier):
4. here is a comparison of before/after cleaning:
5. finally, here are the shiny new mounts, on their support before installation:
Bottom line: it's do-able, as Wyatt demonstrated, but one could have had the engine out quicker than doing the mounts and at that time fixed every single 50 year old gasket + cleaned up and degreased everything. Lesson learned for the next car: I will bite the bullet and listen to Wyatt, get the engine out and do everything at once.
Next are the U-joints — stay tuned!
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polara71
Old Man with a Hat
I put the Schumachers on Blue ten years ago. Poly locks or standard mounts the room is the room , it is tight regardless.
My problem was they didn't line up correctly. I had to leave one side loose and adjust engine height and location to get the left side bolted. Even then it was tight unlike any mount I've used.
True, you will not have to replace them again. The trade off is you notice the harshness of the mount upon acceleration.
My problem was they didn't line up correctly. I had to leave one side loose and adjust engine height and location to get the left side bolted. Even then it was tight unlike any mount I've used.
True, you will not have to replace them again. The trade off is you notice the harshness of the mount upon acceleration.
polara71
Old Man with a Hat
I actually don't like it enough that I may switch back.
78Brougham
"Chump"
I replaced the motor mounts on Old Red @DocMcNeedy car now. The one on the drivers side was in complete melt down mode due to the power steering leaking all over it for years. The passenger side was in poor shape, cracked and squishy. I put OEM style back on. The way I saw it was if the originals lasted 44 years the NAPA $5.95 ones should last at least til death do us part!
Glad Wyatt was able to get the mounts in even if it was a real pain. I usually try to put them in when the engines are out. I have only used these locking mounts in the last few years and I usually use the Mighty Mounts although a couple of my cars have the Schumachers (they both fit fine with all the bolts going in properly for me). Maybe the earlier Schumachers from 10 years ago had some early build issues in terms of bolt hole spacing.
So far I haven't noticed any significant harshness with them and that would be a big issue with me if there was. It seems to me if the engine idles smoothly suggesting uniform compression and proper carburetor settings, and the driveline is in good shape (trans mount is good and U joints as well), there should not be any significant vibration or harshness at idle or on acceleration (but then again there may have been some change in the durometer of the rubber used in the early mounts too). At least I have not noticed anything unusual compared to the Chinese repops that do not last for me, and I don't drive my cars hard with burn outs and all. I have found NAPA mounts are no better than the Chinese repops. I thought NAPA would be a cut above as usual, but they have deteriorated significantly in the last few years and seem to be succumbing to the Chinese crap in all their parts more often than in the past. Maybe that is because it is all they can get or they have to remain competitive to survive.
So far I haven't noticed any significant harshness with them and that would be a big issue with me if there was. It seems to me if the engine idles smoothly suggesting uniform compression and proper carburetor settings, and the driveline is in good shape (trans mount is good and U joints as well), there should not be any significant vibration or harshness at idle or on acceleration (but then again there may have been some change in the durometer of the rubber used in the early mounts too). At least I have not noticed anything unusual compared to the Chinese repops that do not last for me, and I don't drive my cars hard with burn outs and all. I have found NAPA mounts are no better than the Chinese repops. I thought NAPA would be a cut above as usual, but they have deteriorated significantly in the last few years and seem to be succumbing to the Chinese crap in all their parts more often than in the past. Maybe that is because it is all they can get or they have to remain competitive to survive.
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FWIW, I don't believe NAPA ever produced anything, I was always under the impression that they simply bought enough to have manufacturers box in their labels.
I didn't intend to imply that they did manufacture anything, and I am aware that they are just another Autozone, O'Reilly's, Rock Auto or the like. Sometimes they have agreements to sell certain labels under the NAPA brand.
71Polara383
Kid with ballcap
....
cbarge
World Famous Barge in a Budget
I do remember the Poly locks were a ***** to line up.
That's during the intial intall of the motor/trans.
I had three cars and all got the Schumacher mounts.
No harshness from them and Wyatt did get a ride in the Boab,too!
That's during the intial intall of the motor/trans.
I had three cars and all got the Schumacher mounts.
No harshness from them and Wyatt did get a ride in the Boab,too!
MacLebaron
Well-Known Member
That was a good thread with lots of information and good pictures.
Next on Wyatt's list were the U-joints, which he and I had decided to replace as preventative maintenance. Wyatt measured the originals and, as predicted by @Big_John, they were 7290.
After some discussions with several members and a look at various reviews, I decided to go with NAPA "Brute Force" (P/N: UJS UJ248), which are manufactured by SKF. Below are some pictures of before/during/after replacement. An initial test drive by @71Polara383 shows no change in the car feel. That's good: as I said, prevention was the idea here. (EDIT: in the first picture below, see the tapered bearings inside the Ujoint? They didn't have any play, but they didn't have much life left in them. Good thing we did them.)
NOTE: NAPA prices seem to fluctuate quite a bit. When I ordered last week, I was quoted $34.49 per UJ (plus tax, minus 20% AAA discount). The price is now down to $29.99 (plus tax, minus 20% AAA discount). It did not cross my mind that we ought to double-check prices before Wyatt went to pick up the parts: I won't make that mistake twice, as I would have saved about $8 with a couple of mouse clicks.
1. Before.
2. The new parts (please ignore the yellow & red radiator cap box -- that's for another post next week).
3. During.
4. After.
After some discussions with several members and a look at various reviews, I decided to go with NAPA "Brute Force" (P/N: UJS UJ248), which are manufactured by SKF. Below are some pictures of before/during/after replacement. An initial test drive by @71Polara383 shows no change in the car feel. That's good: as I said, prevention was the idea here. (EDIT: in the first picture below, see the tapered bearings inside the Ujoint? They didn't have any play, but they didn't have much life left in them. Good thing we did them.)
NOTE: NAPA prices seem to fluctuate quite a bit. When I ordered last week, I was quoted $34.49 per UJ (plus tax, minus 20% AAA discount). The price is now down to $29.99 (plus tax, minus 20% AAA discount). It did not cross my mind that we ought to double-check prices before Wyatt went to pick up the parts: I won't make that mistake twice, as I would have saved about $8 with a couple of mouse clicks.
1. Before.
2. The new parts (please ignore the yellow & red radiator cap box -- that's for another post next week).
3. During.
4. After.
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Samplingman
Old Man with a Hat
Very helpful info! Question, are both the front and rear U joints the same?
71Polara383
Kid with ballcap
Theres 2 sizes common in mopars. 7260 and 7290. Medina has 7290s front and rear. My 71 383 Monaco has 7260 up front and a 7260/7290 combo u joint because it has a 489 case 3:23 SG I swapped in with the large yoke.
Turns out the front shocks were shot. The two KYB KG4507 that I bought from Summit in late June are now on, thanks to @71Polara383's weekend work. As usual, before and after pics (courtesy of Wyatt):
1. old ones:
2. new ones:
1. old ones:
2. new ones:
Another frill is done!
Yesterday, @71Polara383 transferred the OEM insert from the Pennsylvania Monaco he's parting. Now the interior looks correct for a '71 Monaco, even if the original wheel on mine was a black rim-blow (non-tilt).
Although I like the tilt and or tilt/tel feature, I really prefer the non-rim blow wheel in terms of the slimmer feel. The rim blow wheel actually feels a little clunky due to its wider rim and heavier feel. The standard wheel is just more slick when driving the car IMO.
MacLebaron
Well-Known Member
Nice!
Well folks, much has happened since the last update. Wyatt is almost done getting the car ready for the CATL. I had a pretty hard time finding vendors carrying inventory of the various parts we needed/wanted, so I am providing links to show where I found what I bought.
1. For the cooling system:
a. we replaced the water pump and radiator hoses. Following @saforwardlook's recommendation, I went for a Gates 42032 pump, 20630 molded upper hose, and 20663 molded lower hose -- all carried by Rock Auto. For good measure, we also replaced the thermostat and its gasket, buying from Summit a Stant 45478 T-stat and a Stant 27140 gasket. Attached are pictures of the water pump housing, after Wyatt cleaned it up and after he repainted it. The paint was billed as "Mopar blue" but I don't see the color as a perfect match -- no worries, it is well hidden.
b. Wyatt changed the heater hose nipples as well (I found new ones at Mancini Racing), after I had acquired the proper tool from an eBay vendor that make it much easier to change the nipples connecting the hoses. The tools are not cheap ($50) but well worth the time savings and they can be re-used for work on future cars. Attached is a photo of the old nipples after removal.
c. while he was at it, Wyatt replaced the timing chain and sprockets. The original sprockets still looked to be in amazingly good condition, but why risk it? The new heavy-duty set should last for longer than I won the car as I got (all from Summit) a Cloyes C-3044 timing chain and gear set (double rollers), Fel-Pro TCS124602 timing gasket kit. Here are two photos after installation.
d. the antifreeze was still the one in the car when I'd bought it. It was still green, which is good news (look at the above picture). Regardless, Wyatt flushed the system and put in fresh Zerex original green AF from NAPA.
2. While the cooling system was being worked on, and with the radiator out, Wyatt also replaced the fuel pump. I wanted to buy a Carter M4539, but with the Labor Day weekend it could not be delivered fast enough by the few vendors carrying it -- so Wyatt picked up a Precision 16110 from O'Reilly.
3. For the brakes:
a. the rotors were still fine (photo below), ditto for the drums. Hence, our initial thought was to just replace the hoses, the pads, and the fluid. I bought pads (NAPA Proformer D39-781) / hydraulic hoses (Raybestos BH35017 front from Summit Racing, Raybestos BH36651 rear center from Rock Auto) / fluid (Lucas Oil 10826-1, from Summit). It is amazing to me that different vendors will not carry the full line of Raybestos products, but mix and matches here and there.
b. as Wyatt started replacing the hoses, despite pre-soaking the fittings for a week in penetrating oil, he got a bad surprise: several of them were corroded, and they broke despite his best efforts (photo of the resulting mess below).
Wyatt could have tried to reflare with a new fitting but decided that all new lines would be the best in the long run. The saga of the search of lines is in another thread. I just want to give a big shout out to @saforwardlook and @sixpkrt, who both went WAY beyond the call of duty to help source/get/fit the right brake lines for '71-'73 C-bodies. As of tonight, Medina will be sporting brand new lines from The Right Stuff.
c. While I was at it, I also replaced the master cylinder (Raybestos MC36307 from RockAuto) and the clips (Dorman HW1407 from Summit); the original MC and clips were still fine, but I thought it would not hurt to be thorough. Do it once, do it right, never again. We could not find anyone carrying a booster I'd like, and rebuilders had too long of a lead time for my needs (CATL! CBCBQ!) so I decided to wait on the booster.
d. For the brake fluid change, I followed @Big_John's advice and got Wyatt a power bleeder. Bought from Summit the Motive Products 0105 kit and the 1820 Catch Bottles kit.
1. For the cooling system:
a. we replaced the water pump and radiator hoses. Following @saforwardlook's recommendation, I went for a Gates 42032 pump, 20630 molded upper hose, and 20663 molded lower hose -- all carried by Rock Auto. For good measure, we also replaced the thermostat and its gasket, buying from Summit a Stant 45478 T-stat and a Stant 27140 gasket. Attached are pictures of the water pump housing, after Wyatt cleaned it up and after he repainted it. The paint was billed as "Mopar blue" but I don't see the color as a perfect match -- no worries, it is well hidden.
b. Wyatt changed the heater hose nipples as well (I found new ones at Mancini Racing), after I had acquired the proper tool from an eBay vendor that make it much easier to change the nipples connecting the hoses. The tools are not cheap ($50) but well worth the time savings and they can be re-used for work on future cars. Attached is a photo of the old nipples after removal.
c. while he was at it, Wyatt replaced the timing chain and sprockets. The original sprockets still looked to be in amazingly good condition, but why risk it? The new heavy-duty set should last for longer than I won the car as I got (all from Summit) a Cloyes C-3044 timing chain and gear set (double rollers), Fel-Pro TCS124602 timing gasket kit. Here are two photos after installation.
d. the antifreeze was still the one in the car when I'd bought it. It was still green, which is good news (look at the above picture). Regardless, Wyatt flushed the system and put in fresh Zerex original green AF from NAPA.
2. While the cooling system was being worked on, and with the radiator out, Wyatt also replaced the fuel pump. I wanted to buy a Carter M4539, but with the Labor Day weekend it could not be delivered fast enough by the few vendors carrying it -- so Wyatt picked up a Precision 16110 from O'Reilly.
3. For the brakes:
a. the rotors were still fine (photo below), ditto for the drums. Hence, our initial thought was to just replace the hoses, the pads, and the fluid. I bought pads (NAPA Proformer D39-781) / hydraulic hoses (Raybestos BH35017 front from Summit Racing, Raybestos BH36651 rear center from Rock Auto) / fluid (Lucas Oil 10826-1, from Summit). It is amazing to me that different vendors will not carry the full line of Raybestos products, but mix and matches here and there.
b. as Wyatt started replacing the hoses, despite pre-soaking the fittings for a week in penetrating oil, he got a bad surprise: several of them were corroded, and they broke despite his best efforts (photo of the resulting mess below).
Wyatt could have tried to reflare with a new fitting but decided that all new lines would be the best in the long run. The saga of the search of lines is in another thread. I just want to give a big shout out to @saforwardlook and @sixpkrt, who both went WAY beyond the call of duty to help source/get/fit the right brake lines for '71-'73 C-bodies. As of tonight, Medina will be sporting brand new lines from The Right Stuff.
c. While I was at it, I also replaced the master cylinder (Raybestos MC36307 from RockAuto) and the clips (Dorman HW1407 from Summit); the original MC and clips were still fine, but I thought it would not hurt to be thorough. Do it once, do it right, never again. We could not find anyone carrying a booster I'd like, and rebuilders had too long of a lead time for my needs (CATL! CBCBQ!) so I decided to wait on the booster.
d. For the brake fluid change, I followed @Big_John's advice and got Wyatt a power bleeder. Bought from Summit the Motive Products 0105 kit and the 1820 Catch Bottles kit.
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