Oil Service Question on New Vehicle

[Davea Lux]

You make a really good point about using the right oil and filters. Conventional oils are not usually up to the task of a 10k to 15k change interval, especially if the manufacturer's specs call for synthetic oils. Usually synthetic oils hold up better under the high heat of today's modern engines and they are much less likely to sludge up when exposed to fuel or water contamination. That having been said, I am not a big fan of using synthetic oils in older engines that were designed for conventional oils unless the engine is coming off a full rebuild. Putting synthetic oil in a well used engine is asking for trouble as the synthetics tend to have the annoying tendency of breaking loose years worth of accumulated gunk all at once, usually with very bad results.

I am a big believer in quality oil filters as well. My personal preference is for Hastings filters, but there are many other good ones on the market. The smaller the micron rating of the filter, generally the better keeping in mind that the "cleaner" the filter, the more likely it is to plug up and go on bypass if the proper service interval is not maintained. My 2c worth.

Dave

 

[Davea Lux]

Use your owners manual, use the correct oil and a quality filter. Early changes are no problem, quick lubes won't use the right oil. A modern engine with several hundred thousands of miles still won't need a ridge reamer at tear down... lots of metallurgy and chemistry involved in modern engines to allow tighter tolerances and prevent wear.

FWIW, MB flexible service system from 1998 may include in it's calculation of oil life: coolant temps, rpms, engine load, oil levels, oil temps and oil quality. Oil quality sensor's basically measure the conductivity of the oil and can detect changes from too much metallic material, fuel or water.

You can do 5k changes instead of 10k, but the key is the correct oil and filters being used. Pretty much all newer engines require the specific viscosity a type to function correctly (variable valve lift and timing systems use oil pressure to operate).

Incorrect oils (quick lube bulk vs. semi or full synthetics for example) often led to sludging problems within the first 100k, similar engines would still be clean on factory spec (Mobil 1) at several hundred thousand miles. 10-15k intervals on conventional and the cartridge filters came out with oil like a jello mold.

I would not let any quick lube geniuses any where near any of my vehicles. Most of them are much more interested in selling me a service I do not want or need rather than doing a proper routine service.

Dave

 

[70NEWYORKER]

How long do you plan on keeping it? If you're going to sell it before the warranty expires follow the oil-minder recommendations. If you plan to run it till the wheels fall off, change oil around 3000 miles.
I've had a bunch of late model motors opened up around 100K miles. These have been higher end mills with 7500 mile and up change intervals. Pretty nasty inside. Cam phasers clogged with junk, Multi-displacement valve lifters stuck/collapsed, timing chain guides/tensioners ground to pieces. Main and rod bearing clearances are extremely tight in newer motors...less room for trash to move though. And the oil weights they call for aren't much heavier than tap water.
If you're going to keep it for a long time change the oil around 3000 miles. Get the best filter and oil you can. The only thing you can't really due is change the weight of the oil. Use what manufacturer states. As I said the bottom ends are very tight, heaver oils won't lube as well nor flow thru well enough to cool the bearings. Most motors are also using the oil as a hydraulic fluid to vary the cam timing. Computer has been programmed at the factory with the dwell times for the cam solenoids to achieve the cam advance/retard rates need to make the engine perform properly. Wrong weight oil throws this off. Performance can suffer, check engine light on, possible valve/piston collisions,etc.
There's no real room anymore to screw around. CAFE and EPA requirements have caused this.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

Depends on your driving, outside air temps, load%, throttle opening.
Go by how long you intend to keep it. I would personally not go over 5000mi

 

[barnfind]

Sending a sample in for oil analysis will let you know how your doing.

 

[rapidtrans]

You have the quick change place use your brand of choice whether synth or not and watch them pour from the bottle. My local guy has a Pennzoil Franchise but offers all major brands and synthetics. Same guy's been changin the oil in my older cars for 20yrs.
Guys are correct not to let them just pump in the generic stuff from their big tank.

 

[Snotty]

Use your owners manual,

That's my dilemma. I do read the manual and it says to follow the computer. But, waiting for over 8,000 miles between changes just "feels" wrong to me.

 

[Yatzee]

Hey all, I have a question of which I wonder what some of you would do?

I told you that I bought a 2017 Durango R/T in October, 2016. Tghe owner's manual gives no detail to oil changes except "Follow the recommendation of the computer." Or, something like that. I had the oil changed by the dealer when the computer said "5% life remaining." That was at close to 9,000 miles.

At this time the computer states that I have 44% life at 14,800 miles, yet the window sticker put on by the dealer says I should get it done now.

What would/do you do if you own a new vehicle?

I appreciate what you can say. Thanks, Scott

Oil is so important and cheap I buy a good grade like Mobil 1 and matching filter and change it at 70%. I reset after every oil change but my system for notification works on both time and mileage. The vehicle sits unused for extended periods of time and does not experience that many heat cycles. I've noted the mileage but it will pop up a change warning at less than 50%. I still think oil should be changed with the beginning of a new season because that's when the outdoor temperatures change.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

The used Jeep GC we bought came with a life time powertrain warranty, which I don't put much faith in, and was built into the price. Yes I went around and around and just decided to leave it especially with the MDS lifter failures.
They want it changed within 5000 mi and no restrictions on synthetic/conventional, filter brand, if that helps.

 

[cantflip]

That's my dilemma. I do read the manual and it says to follow the computer. But, waiting for over 8,000 miles between changes just "feels" wrong to me.

Use the manual for product recommendations... early change intervals only cost money, and not very much at that. There are known issues within every manufacturer I know of about folks using incorrect oils and causing trouble. If they want Mobil 1, just use it... it really isn't that much more if you shop for it. Ford uses a semi synthetic 0w-20... and has documented issues from folks who thought walmart brand 10w30 would do as well. Talking to @Dobalovr earlier this year, Chrysler products have very similar issues. I also track issues with some Nissan and BMW folks.

Do Not use cheap or substitute oils, and many newer car filters are not effectively reproduced anymore due to the manufacturer's discovering they can patent a design and force the aftermarket to devise a workaround, which often is not just as good. You may have to pony up for the factory filters too...

Regardless early changes are harmless, the good they do is debatable, but cheap insurance.

 

[Dobalovr]

Hey all, I have a question of which I wonder what some of you would do?

I told you that I bought a 2017 Durango R/T in October, 2016. Tghe owner's manual gives no detail to oil changes except "Follow the recommendation of the computer." Or, something like that. I had the oil changed by the dealer when the computer said "5% life remaining." That was at close to 9,000 miles.

At this time the computer states that I have 44% life at 14,800 miles, yet the window sticker put on by the dealer says I should get it done now.

What would/do you do if you own a new vehicle?

I appreciate what you can say. Thanks, Scott

Hey Scott

Speaking from the Dealership side on your Durango - when your oil life indicator is running into the low teens I would book your oil change with the Dealer. The sticker we put on your windshhield is a carry over from a bizzilion years ago when we told everyone to change oil every 3 months or 3000 miles. You oil life monitor is the final authority in this situation. The switch to longer intervals was partly a result of lobbying by some states (primarily CA) who were awash in used oil. By utilizing advancements in synthetics we can stretch the intervals thus reducing the amount of used oil entering the recycle market. Other factors such as increased demand from engineering has also made certain components requiring synthetics to operate properly as well as systems such as MDS requiring certain viscosities. In short goto the Dealer get their Spring/Summer/Fall/Winter special for $89 knowing the correct oil/filter have been installed....at least until your warranty is over after that go where you like as warranty is not a concern.

 

[66Newyorker]

Even back in the mid 80s when I started work as a tech in dealerships the owners manual would have 2 schedules of maintenance. Normal and extreme or severe I can’t exactly recall. Under the normal the oil change interval was 7500 miles and the severe was 3000 miles. With modern engine designs the need for 3000 mile oil changes has pretty much gone away. Follow the owners manual, use a good quality oil and filter. Still check your oil level I have seen what is considered normal usage between oil changes.

 

[JC68vert300]

I don't trust the computer. I also have a Durango R/T. I have changed the oil every 4500 miles. I have always changed my fluids religiously in all my vehicles and haven't ever had engine or trans problems in the last 40 years.

 

[Snotty]

Hey Scott

Speaking from the Dealership side on your Durango - when your oil life indicator is running into the low teens I would book your oil change with the Dealer. The sticker we put on your windshhield is a carry over from a bizzilion years ago when we told everyone to change oil every 3 months or 3000 miles. You oil life monitor is the final authority in this situation. The switch to longer intervals was partly a result of lobbying by some states (primarily CA) who were awash in used oil. By utilizing advancements in synthetics we can stretch the intervals thus reducing the amount of used oil entering the recycle market. Other factors such as increased demand from engineering has also made certain components requiring synthetics to operate properly as well as systems such as MDS requiring certain viscosities. In short goto the Dealer get their Spring/Summer/Fall/Winter special for $89 knowing the correct oil/filter have been installed....at least until your warranty is over after that go where you like as warranty is not a concern.

I get coupons from the Dealer in Red Bluff (about an hour away) for an oil change and tire rotation for $34.95! The local Dealer I bought the car from offers the same coupon for $89.95. I think it's worth it to me to drive the hour.

DOn't know if you can see it, but this link is the coupon:
http://chryslerdoe.meredith.com/cou...YW2164G0010JV92T9395L17922229Q1229Y2410380345

 

[Dobalovr]

I get coupons from the Dealer in Red Bluff (about an hour away) for an oil change and tire rotation for $34.95! The local Dealer I bought the car from offers the same coupon for $89.95. I think it's worth it to me to drive the hour.

DOn't know if you can see it, but this link is the coupon:
http://chryslerdoe.meredith.com/cou...YW2164G0010JV92T9395L17922229Q1229Y2410380345

The $34.95 is likely only 5 quarts of oil the $89.95 version is likely averaged and covers the extra oil Hemi’s use or they make it pay by charging for the extras like air filters etc

 

[Alchemi]

Just rebuilding our 265,000km old 07 2.2l Diesel Santa Fe, its 17.3:1 running 25psi of boost from the factory, the bearing clearances are 0.0009 to 0.0017.
All the internals were in good shape, very quick hone that it prob didnt need and a very light crank polish. Any damage that is apparent in the engine would seem to be from dirty oil, the engine is apart from excessive blow-by, it was bubbling oil out of the injector seals.
So the post mortem is that the ring lands were all full of carbon and the seals have died from heat. Dunno if a poor servicing schedule caused the ring lands to fill up or if its the EGR system doing its job.
People seem to Delete EGR's off newer cars regularly, but after a lot of research i found that one of the things its used for on a diesel is cylinder cooling, and removal can lead to ring failure, so it stays on for the moment
It will be getting a catch can on the pcv (the factory setup is a joke, it even has a small vacuum pump that dosent seem to do alot) a manual boost controller and some regular seafoam when its back on the road.
AND VERY REGULAR OIL CHANGES lols

With newer cars there is a statistic of cost of ownership that the manufacturers use to compete with each other, a longer oil change interval reduces this amount and looks more attractive to the bean-counter fleet buyers

 

[cantflip]

With newer cars there is a statistic of cost of ownership that the manufacturers use to compete with each other, a longer oil change interval reduces this amount and looks more attractive to the bean-counter fleet buyers

Ah yes... the "cost of ownership" statistic... Led lots of stupidity, Chrysler used to call for a 7k mile interval on "normal" conditions... folks loved to think they drove in a "normal" environment without thinking of the extreme days, excessive loads and whatever else they put the car through. At least the computer should account for some of that.

Oil changes are cheap for the consumer, and make no money for the dealer. The quick lube aftermarket industry tries to make their profit on a combination of volume, cheaper parts and fluids and add-on services. They also have no well qualified (expensive) technicians to feed.

Many repair businesses do oil changes at minimal profit and even take a loss on many of them. The idea is to get the car in the shop and be able to sell the other maintenance items. Folks who shop based on price alone, don't usually realize what they are really giving up at that price.

Even dealers are not a guarantee, I know of at least one MB dealer in the Tampa area who used cheap conventional oil in their tanks marked with Mobil 1 labels. We replaced lots of engine blocks on cars in warranty and did our best to band aid cars out of warranty with serious sludge issues.

BTW, no block work to be done, the bores were silicon impregnated... What you know about one engine does not translate to a different engine when it is time for repairs. A huge number of engines have coated pistons, same thing... the coatings cannot be compromised in any way. Chemicals added to the fuel or the oil (cleaners off the shelf at the parts store) have been known to cause trouble in some engines because of this, too much bad information and long standing practices that once were not so harmful could lead to big problems on modern machinery.

 

[MoPar Maniac]

My son used to work at quick lube place tht used Pennzoil. He cod look inside the oii fill hole and tel if theowner wasa regular customer by the sludge inside.
He said a few he changed valve cover gaskets on were competely clogged and had the oil changed every 3k.