Opinions on converting from R12 to R134?

oh yeah just to let you know...R1234yf which has been mandated in all new cars since 2017 in Europe and the 2020's for us...is flammable ! Daimler has all sorts of videos out there of the stuff going up and tried to fight the EU but failed in the end
 
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Interesting. I have also heard that R134A has as much harmful environmental impacts as R12, just different.
1234yf refrigerant is only mildly flammable and nothing near as flammable as some of the other alternatives out there.........................and then we also have EV batteries that can catch fire and are really hard to put out if they do....................another case of the benefits outweighing the risks.

One issue is the protective ozone layer that protects us from ultra violet rays from the sun that lead to skin cancers and the other one aims at climate change that protects us from excessive ambient temperatures going forward according to scientists.

Here is a link to the Mercedes claims..........................

https://aiche.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/prs.10347
 
My refrigerator doesn't get into many traffic accidents.
True enough, but also, I think that there is also the efficiency element in flammable gasses - IE the need for appliances and vehicles to achieve better performance using less energy, and some of that has risks previously considered high (like fire) have moved down the list to make roome for fuel efficiency/electricity use efficiency.

From personal experience, I have no doubt in my mind that butane/propane based systems for AC/refridgeration/freezer use are more efficient, fire risk not withstanding.

Now, if I have a fire I may change my tune!
 
I'm not sure there are any 'new' RV-2 compressors to be had anymore, and I've had marginal luck with the reman/rebuilt units over the past 5-7 years. Front seals don't seem to hold up to the higher pressures of R134. I also think there is a temptation to 'overcharge' the system with R-134 to try and compensate for the fact that it doesn't cool as much as the original R-12 system. Also, I've found that the guys who hoarded cans of R-12 back in the day, planning to get rich, have had to come down in their prices, since so many people moved to R-134, thus reducing demand for the old stuff.
I did convert the A/C in my 70 Hurst at my last compressor change, and while it doesn't cool quite as well as it used to, something is better than nothing, and the R134 recharge kits with built in gauge are very convenient. I took it to a 'real' A/C service place to make sure it was properly evacuated and charged on an actual machine, not just a shade tree conversion. I've also found it helps to run the A/C at least once a month, whether it's needed or not, to keep the front seal lubricated so it won't dry out and let gas escape during cold months and/or storage. As always, your mileage may vary. Last year I moved from MA to TX, so I might just be experiencing the fact that a system which performed well enough in 85 to 90 degree weather in the northeast in summer has more trouble coping with triple digit days in Texas in July. The last RV-2 compressor I had was not even engaged or running when the front seal started oozing oil out just standing still while I was parked at a cruise night. Sweaty ride home. I contemplated switching to a Sanden, but I had a spare RV-2 'new in the box' from Rock Auto sitting on the shelf, so I went with originality. If this one fails in less than 5 years, I think I'll go Sanden with one of the readily available brackets for a 440 install, plus the required new hoses/fittings. Many older Mopars I've seen since moving down here to Texas have gone the Sanden route, presumably for weight, reliability, and performance. My Hurst is a pretty nice example, but I have it to drive and enjoy, not to look at, so if a non-original Sanden gets me more miles in comfort, I won't mind. I will certainly save all the original bracketry and hoses for some future owner if/when the time comes to pass it along.
 
While I haven't converted a vintage Mopar to R134 yet, I have done it on a half-dozen other old cars, all with good results. The most recent was an '89 Mustang GT convertible that needed a new compressor. I switched all the O rings to green, flushed the system to remove as much of the old mineral oil as possible, replaced it with the required amount of PAG, and that was it. I took it to an A/C and hot rod shop owned by a guy who knows what he is doing, and he evacuated and charged it. The A/C was so cold in that car, it could almost hurt you - even with the non-insulated convertible top.

On my Monaco, I plan to use the Sanden/134 combo. As much as I like the V-twin RV2 for original looks, my A/C guy says to stay away for the reasons outlined elsewhere in this thread. I did rebuild the HVAC box with new foam, new heater core, and had the shop flush and test the evaporator, which is so big that he asked me if it was from a motor home. I said, "Pretty close, '75 Monaco." We will see if the Sanden plays nice with that size evap, though I suspect it will.
 
Well, after keeping up with this thread. I decided to see if I could get my system working. The previous owner charged it with 134 before I bought it. My father test drove the car a month before I got to pick it up two years ago he said it worked then, and I haven't bothered to try it. So, yesterday was the day. I pulled vacuum on it, hit it with two cans. The compressor clutch took off and the system looked like all was well....The temp gauge I put in the vent showed another story. I put my guages on it and both read 100. The compressor is shot. What bracket issues are associated with a Sanden change over? Is there a website that sells a kit?
 
Well, after keeping up with this thread. I decided to see if I could get my system working. The previous owner charged it with 134 before I bought it. My father test drove the car a month before I got to pick it up two years ago he said it worked then, and I haven't bothered to try it. So, yesterday was the day. I pulled vacuum on it, hit it with two cans. The compressor clutch took off and the system looked like all was well....The temp gauge I put in the vent showed another story. I put my guages on it and both read 100. The compressor is shot. What bracket issues are associated with a Sanden change over? Is there a website that sells a kit?

These guys have everything you need. Ask for Randy:

Products: Air Conditioning - Bouchillon Performance Engineering
 
Well, after keeping up with this thread. I decided to see if I could get my system working. The previous owner charged it with 134 before I bought it. My father test drove the car a month before I got to pick it up two years ago he said it worked then, and I haven't bothered to try it. So, yesterday was the day. I pulled vacuum on it, hit it with two cans. The compressor clutch took off and the system looked like all was well....The temp gauge I put in the vent showed another story. I put my guages on it and both read 100. The compressor is shot. What bracket issues are associated with a Sanden change over? Is there a website that sells a kit?
If you have a 383 or 440 this is what I used from Bouchillon.

DSCF5494.JPG
 
Why? When butane-based products such as Duracool are available over the counter with zero restrictions?

As long as your system is in good condition, it works splendidly. Just don't overcharge it.

This is a pic of the vent temp teading in my 66 T&C just a couple of weeks ago, using Duracool.

I got the same performance from R134A... but switched to Duracool about 5 years ago or more.
You making popsicle?
 
So after reading everything and talking to everyone, I decided to convert to R134a to get something running at least, and now everything does work, but the compressor clutch is definitely on its way out, belt bounces pretty violently from the shaking, but it least assures there's no leaks and everything else works, since I had no idea what worked or what didn't since it's still a relatively new purchase.

Bought a Sanden 508 (UAC CO9285C) from RockAuto for pretty cheap, so that's on the way, my only question now is, knowing that everything works more or less fine, I know there are recommendations for upgrading several of the other components when upgrading the compressor, but besides the Bouchillon brackets, is there anything else 100% needed or required otherwise to get it working in the short term? And if not, what are the main bottlenecks for cooling efficiency when I do decide to bring the other components up to par in the future?

Thanks for everyone's help. For C Bodies Only may as well be the only website I browse these days since everywhere else I frequent has degraded so much it's not even worth bothering anymore. Stay frosty, gentlemen.
 
well we are running a12 from duracool , it's friendly with all types of coolant lines and fittings . it's a tiki torch fuel . it's cooler than 134 or r12 and it uses a low head pressure so leaks don't happen and its easier on the whole system . we used it on this 340 4spd duster a my buds buick with a 500 inch cad in it .

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just a note regarding the evac of the system , my buds cad makes 22 inches a vac , so he used the running engine to evac the a/c system , then just let the charge in and normalize and free it of any bubbles in the system using the sight eye on the a/c system itself . so you don't need any equipment to get this recharging process done .
 
My limited experience with 12a and propane has been that the system is sufficiently charged before the sight glass runs clear.
Yes, I use straight propane. I charge the system with propane from the barbeque tank to test the system after repairs to an old system. If I like the results, the propane gets evacuated and in goes the difluoroethane canned air that also can be burned if you work hard enough at it.
 
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