Over heating

Gypsy

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Mission BC Canada
I have a Monaco 66 with a 383 Engine if the outside temp is over 24 C she will overheat
I was told a oversized water pump may help ? I installed an extra electric driven cooling fan
the only thing that helps a little is if I turn on the heat in the vehicle
Your input will be much appreciated

Monaco 66 side view.jpg


Monaco engine2.jpg
 
I see you have a shroud and it looks like a flex fan. Is this a new issue? Is it only at idle? Or does it overheat at highway speeds? We need more info as to when this problem started and what you have done so far.
Personally, I never liked those flex fans. I prefer the thermo clutch 7 blade fans with the shroud. It could be any number of things such as a plugged radiator, timing issues, thermostat issues, belt slippage, collapsed hoses. Nice car by the way.
 
first thing to try is if radiator is clogged ....with the level down look in and see what the ends of the tubes look like....a good radiator shop (if they still exist in your area ) should be able to flush it or worst case take the tanks off and rod it out or even re-core it...but with the current price of copper a re-core is not cheap
 
I concur on the flex fan. When they came out in the 1970s, they were considered a "power saver" so lots of hot rodders put them on their cars. Can cool well, but generally noisy, even on the highway with proper placement in the shroud. Been there, done that, went back to an OEM-brand fan clutch and the factory fan.

One thing not usually considered is accumulation of "gunk" in the rear of the block's coolant passages. When was the last time those were cleaned out? A messy job, for sure, but necessary in some over-heat issues.

Generally, if the radiator is clean and the block coolant passages are clean, no "over-heat" should happen.

High capacity water pumps can be counterproductive, from my experiences, although they look great on paper and in theory. But on the vehicle I put one on, actually an aftermarket casting which was more ample in dimensions with clean internal castings, the temp needle was 1.5-widths higher on the gauge, with the same 180* F thermostat. Contrary to their sales literature!

Now, finally, what is your definition of "over-heating"?

Take care,
CBODY67
 
As said, there's a lot of reasons it could be overheating. Some details of the car might help.

Some possible causes are already listed and I'll add bad thermostat, missing "splash shields" or hood seal.

Regarding the flex fan... I saw one come apart on a friend's car when he was on the starting line at the local drag strip. One blade came up through the hood. A local guy got killed when a blade broke while using a timing light. So yea, I don't like them at all.
 
I see you have a shroud and it looks like a flex fan. Is this a new issue? Is it only at idle? Or does it overheat at highway speeds? We need more info as to when this problem started and what you have done so far.
Personally, I never liked those flex fans. I prefer the thermo clutch 7 blade fans with the shroud. It could be any number of things such as a plugged radiator, timing issues, thermostat issues, belt slippage, collapsed hoses. Nice car by the way.
Thank you for your information, no its not a new issue it started 20 years ago when I received the vehicle from my son as a gift ,The radiator is clean, I have installed an extra Electrical cooling fan in front of the radiator, I also installed a transmission oil cooler in front of the radiator ,the overheating starts when in Idle and the outside temp is above 23 C., she doesn't overheat when driving, the hoses are all ok, when she idles and I turn on the inside heat and fan it helps a little to cool the engine down? I don't know the timing and leaning for the 4 barrel carb, perhaps the carb is leaned to much ? I will check the water pump and belts as you suggested , are there larger water pumps available for the 383 engine ? the ignition is changed to an electronic ignition are there cooler spark plugs available for this engine ?
 
Define "overheating" as what are the temperatures the car is reaching.

Some guys see 200° F and figure that's too hot.
 
As said, there's a lot of reasons it could be overheating. Some details of the car might help.

Some possible causes are already listed and I'll add bad thermostat, missing "splash shields" or hood seal.

Regarding the flex fan... I saw one come apart on a friend's car when he was on the starting line at the local drag strip. One blade came up through the hood. A local guy got killed when a blade broke while using a timing light. So yea, I don't like them at all.
Thanks for the info, I installed a new Thermostat I am not familiar with the Splash Shields and Hood seals ?
 
Thanks for the info, I installed a new Thermostat I am not familiar with the Splash Shields and Hood seals ?
Hood seal. Helps redirect air through the radiator

Your '66 should have a metal "stone deflector" that is bolted between the radiator support and the bottom of the bumper. That also helps keep the air flowing through the radiator.

What temperature thermostat did you change to?


Hood seal.jpg


Stone deflect.jpg
 
In the instrument panel gauge, the "boxed" area under the main line indicates "normal range". Usually, about 1/2 way from "C" is about 200*F, a 180*F thermostat should put it just a bir below 1/2 way.

Where is the needle staying?

CBODY67
 
If you don't overheat going down the road and only at idle, your radiator is fine. You simply are not moving enough air at idle. If it were me, I would ditch that flex fan and install a 7 blade fan with thermo clutch. That flex fan is not your friend IMO. You didn't say which thermostat you put in but a 180 should be good.
 
There are some things to think about and understand better with any problem. When our cars were new, they could be driven anywhere, anytime, without the concern of overheating. Sure, they could overheat, but it wasn't something to worry about. What has changed through the years?
One thing that gets overlooked is using the wrong water to dilute the coolant. If tap water is used, or even worse, well water, the total dissolved solids (TDS) in the water (calcium and silicate as well as some others) build up in the water passages, including the heat ex-changers (radiator and heater core). A 1/16 buildup is the equivalent of trying to transfer heat through a 1-inch casting. In other words, everything is going to be holding heat because it can't be transferred into the coolant efficiently and what does get absorb into the coolant can't be removed into the air going through the radiator efficiently. You combine this with a colder thermostat and not enough air flow, overheating will happen pretty easily. I know for my car; the original radiator had some clogged cores at the bottom. When your engine is running, take an inferred temperature gun and check each core. You may also find some are clogged and they will be cold/cooler. Also, check the temperature at the top and bottom radiator hoses. With that you'll see how much the radiator is cooling the antifreeze. Check the heater hoses also, you said running the heat helps with the overheating. You'll see how much heat the heater-core's removing.
As far as the thermostat, a hotter thermostat can help keep the engine from overheating by keeping the coolant in the radiator longer so it can cool down. Another thing that gets overlooked is the pressure cap. Make sure both seals are good and the vacuum valve in the center is working, the spring should pull it back quickly when you pull on it. For every 1 pound of pressure, it will raise the boiling point about 3 degrees. A 15-pound cap will raise the boiling point 45 degrees and a 20-pound cap would naturally be 60 degrees, but if you have a weak spot in the cooling system, more pressure will find it. Don't get confused about overheating and boiling point. If the coolant never boiled, you could still overheat the engine, but if your coolant turns into a vapor (boils), you WILL overheat the engine. The water pump has probably been changed a couple times, is it the correct one for your car? There are different impellers for different applications, the most inexpensive isn't always the best and may cause cooling problems.
Do you have an overflow tank? If not, install one. They keep the radiator full and help keep it from pulling contaminants in. I know, I know, the air will still flow in and out of that tank, but it keeps the air out of the radiator.
Something else to think about is how much heat the engine needs and how it's controlled. 31% goes out the exhaust, 8% is lost through radiation (the heat you feel when you raise the hood), the engine holds onto 30% to function properly, so that leaves 31% for the cooling system. My engine was on the dyno in 2017 and of course, they ran water through it. As soon as I got it back home, I capped the bottom hose inlet and filled it with 50/50 antifreeze, capped the top hose outlet and there it sat. I knew it was going to be a while until I installed it and I didn't want the rust to start because that will also make heat transfer more difficult.
This is just some info about the cooling system, take what you will, but your car wasn't overheating when it was new. Having a better understanding of what's going on can help solve the issue. You have a nice car, it would be awesome to enjoy it without being concerened about overheating problems!!
 
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There are some things to think about and understand better with any problem. When our cars were new, they could be driven anywhere, anytime, without the concern of overheating. Sure, they could overheat, but it wasn't something to worry about. What has changed through the years?
One thing that gets overlooked is using the wrong water to dilute the coolant. If tap water is used, or even worse, well water, the total dissolved solids (TDS) in the water (calcium and silicate as well as some others) build up in the water passages, including the heat ex-changers (radiator and heater core). A 1/16 buildup is the equivalent of trying to transfer heat through a 1-inch casting. In other words, everything is going to be holding heat because it can't be transferred into the coolant efficiently and what does get absorb into the coolant can't be removed into the air going through the radiator efficiently. You combine this with a colder thermostat and not enough air flow, overheating will happen pretty easily. I know for my car; the original radiator had some clogged cores at the bottom. When your engine is running, take an inferred temperature gun and check each core. You may be some clogged and they will be cold. Also, check the temperature at the top and bottom radiator hoses. With that you'll see how much the radiator is cooling the antifreeze. Check the heater hoses also, you said running the heat helps with the overheating. You'll see how much heat the heater-core's removing.
As far as the thermostat, a hotter thermostat can help keep the engine from overheating by keeping the coolant in the radiator longer so it can cool down. Another thing that gets overlooked is the pressure cap. Make sure both seals are good and the vacuum valve in the center is working, the spring should pull it back quickly when you pull on it. For every 1 pound of pressure, it will raise the boiling point about 3 degrees. A 15-pound cap will raise the boiling point 45 degrees and a 20-pound cap would naturally be 60 degrees, but if you have a weak spot in the cooling system, more pressure will find it. Don't get confused about overheating and boiling point. If the coolant never boiled, you could still overheat the engine, but if your coolant turns into a vapor (boils), you WILL overheat the engine. The water pump has probably been changed a couple times, is it the correct one for your car? There are different impellers for different applications, the most inexpensive isn't always the best and may cause cooling problems.
Do you have an overflow tank? If not, install one. They keep the radiator full and help keep it from pulling contaminants in. I know, I know, the air will still flow in and out of that tank, but it keeps the air out of the radiator.
Something else to think about is how much heat the engine needs and how it's controlled. 31% goes out the exhaust, 8% is lost through radiation (the heat you feel when you raise the hood), the engine holds onto 30% to function properly, so that leaves 31% for the cooling system. My engine was on the dyno in 2017 and of course, they ran water through it. As soon as I got it back home, I capped the bottom hose inlet and filled it with 50/50 antifreeze, capped the top hose outlet and there it sat. I knew it was going to be a while until I installed it and I didn't want the rust to start because that will also make heat transfer more difficult.
This is just some info about the cooling system, take what you will, but your car wasn't overheating when it was new. Having a better understanding of what's going on can help solve the issue. You have a nice car, it would be awesome to enjoy it without being concerened about overheating problems!!
Thank you your input is much appreciated
 
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