PS23K8D191537 04/09/1968 W. H. Humphreys

[Ripinator]

View attachment 196765
here is someone elses work on what they had to do. so it looks like i have the bracket for a TRW pump, and the ***'y is a Saginaw, so they do not go together as far as I have found so far.

Saylor: I think the PS pump actually mounts to the A/C pump via a couple of long bolts that go through the PS pump mount and through the A/C mounting holes and then into the engine block / cylinder head. I think that if you loosely mount the A/C pump first, and then position the PS pump, everything should fall together.

EDIT: And oh! The square hole is there so you can insert a 1/2 inch breaker bar / torque wrench to pull / adjust the belt to get it tight. I think forty foot pounds is the correct spec.

 

[68PK21 440.6bbl]

EDIT: And oh! The square hole is there so you can insert a 1/2 inch breaker bar / torque wrench to pull / adjust the belt to get it tight. I think forty footy pounds is the correct spec.

SPOILER!... now I'll never know what this Humphrey crap is all about! LOL

 

[pomonamissel]

whats your quest ? ps without a/c ?

 

[Ripinator]

Saylor: I think the PS pump actually mounts to the A/C pump via a couple of long bolts that go through the PS pump mount and through the A/C mounting holes and then into the engine block / cylinder head. . .

Saylor: One more edit here: The PS mounting bolts go through holes in the PS pump and A/C compressor into pre-drilled and tapped holes in the water pump housing - not the block / cylinder head. Sorry for the confusion. . .

 

[saylor]

thanks @ rip for the directions!

@pomona - i was planning on putting it back in as-was - PS + AC etc. but i keep hitting rust the more i dismantle the car. i just discovered the package tray / rear decklid area is all chewed up like it leaked from the right/passenger side back window maybe. and the hole in the cowl sucks eggs. if i hit too much more rust this thing will get parted out down at jasons....

 

[saylor]

I was mocking accessory parts back onto the rebuilt motor and found that the 3/4" exhaust manifold stud as provided by the rebuilder was not long enough (that's what she said) to fit the manifold + spark plug wire support bracket + A/C mounting bracket. So I put double nut on there and after a while stripped the threads on the stud. so then I put vice grips on and a pry bar and was manually unscrewing the stud. then it broke flush off.

so THEN I drilled out the center of the broken off exhaust stud from about 1 c. hair up to almost 3/8" the size of the stud. Put in the easy out. leaned into that and the tip of the easy out broke off in the pilot hole..

then I packed it all up and didn't work on cars for a few weeks. got some money up and took it back to the rebuilder. he didn't want to touch it but sent me to Delbert hoops machine and welding 600 ft. worth dr denton TX. Delbert took great care of me and it, and extracted the broken pieces and chased and cleaned it all up, and installed the new stud I had brought with me. 100 bucks.i gave him and extra $20 and said the lap dance is on me.

on sept1 we had the mopar show in garland, and out of whatever hundred cars, 0 are set up like this.. w/AC w/PS and this style ALT bracket and the big wheel P/S pump. I saw plenty that were rigged up with shims and spacers, even on 'show' cars. also many ppl have converted or added the vintage air sanden type setups for their A/C. most that the smaller style P/S pump in this configuration. Or the alternator bracket was different (under not over).
so I did some figurin, and think I have worked out the belts and mounting of the P/S pump. I guess I had a bracket that does not belong, as I removed it and then everything went together and looks to line up.

17435 P/S belt w/big pulley wheel
15650 x2 AC/ALT belts
15360 fan belt

 

[saylor]

stardate 20181010.0U812. Captains Log:

the studs are ****. total ****. wtf. took motor back to denton 3rd trip it has more miles on it in the back of my truck than actually functioning.

dudes tried to reuse the old manifold studs on the fresh rebuild and 3 have broken so far.

i was puttin the manifolds back on and the little shits broke from me just hand wrenching them. i told them to please remove all 12 studs and put me some fresh new grade 8 studs in. i had one with me and showed them it threaded clean all the way by hand with a nut, and the actual stud is ****. they agreed to take it back and fix them.

stay tuned.

 

[MarPar]

 

[clair.davis]

Subscribed because so much like mine... and Texas.

 

[saylor]

stardate 20190203.LIII. Captains Log:

wayne calvert says exhaust manifold studs are not part of the rebuilding process and i should go pound sand. he charged me $50 more dollars to remove the broken stud. his rebuild cost me $4200... and here we are dicking around with a set of $12 bolts. WT actual F. And i drove by 4 engine rebuild shops to get to his. wayne calvert and his kid randy can both go pound sand.

so anyways I'm finally back to this thing. about to mate the transmission to the block and felt like I was about to goof it up. So here are some pics. whats the order of modus here in reassembly? how does the little starter plate fit in? behind the torque plate engine side?

 

[MarPar]

I was wondering what the hell happened to you.

You need dowel pins to locate the trans IIRC. I dont know about the plate, sorry.

And ya, olde wayne can pound sand over $12. sheesh.

 

[saylor]

hrum there was a post from polara500 that i dont see now...

per that post i got that the starter shield goes on with the starter, not now. this piece is just to cover up the hole so not as much road shite gets in there.

Q: the torque converter hub center hitting the flex plate - is the converter hub supposed to fit INSIDE of the middle of the flex plate cavity?

 

[65sporty]

Q: the torque converter hub center hitting the flex plate - is the converter hub supposed to fit INSIDE of the middle of the flex plate cavity?

Yes and it looks like the torque converter is back all the way, line up the dowels and it should go together. Once it's together you should still be able to turn the torque converter, if you can't the torque converter is not in all the way, fix it or it will wipe out the front pump.

 

[CBODY67]

"Pounding sand" might depend upon which side of the sandbox one is in. Parts plus "billable labor" to fix the customer's concerns. I don't know of any engine shop that, as a matter of course, removes any studs just because they are in their appropriate threads. Be that as it may. Obviously, it would have made for a better customer experience if they'd replaced it "for free", as the cost of the materials is minimal, but then there's that "shop labor" charge that has to pay the employees to do what they do and keep the lights on. At least it's now done. When's it going so smoke the tires?

Just some thoughts,
CBODY67

 

[CBODY67]

(You realize that all editions of "Star Trek" are on Heroes and Icons broadcast channel every night during the week? In sequence from earlier to later editions. At least in DFW.)

 

[clair.davis]

hrum there was a post from polara500 that i dont see now...

per that post i got that the starter shield goes on with the starter, not now. this piece is just to cover up the hole so not as much road shite gets in there.

Q: the torque converter hub center hitting the flex plate - is the converter hub supposed to fit INSIDE of the middle of the flex plate cavity?

If you can look past the ugly, the starter shield is mounted here:

Engine_and_Transmission_Details by clair_davis, on Flickr

Not sure about the starter, but I think I was the first person to separate the engine from the trans on my car...

Hate to hear that about Calvert. I didn't get a good feel when I visited the shop about my 440 rebuild. I've had to put that project on a back burner while my wife is out of work... no play money for almost a year now...

 

[saylor]

thx for the help and pics. calvert was disappointing I expected more for the money I spent. If I threw another bit to it I coulda just bought a complete crate motor...

 

[saylor]

Yes and it looks like the torque converter is back all the way, line up the dowels and it should go together. Once it's together you should still be able to turn the torque converter, if you can't the torque converter is not in all the way, fix it or it will wipe out the front pump.

what kind of tolerance should i expect where the center hub of the coverter <> center cavity of flexplate ? i haven't got the dowels stabbed yet the angles and dangles are damn hard to line up and then the center hub hits. should it be a decent amount of PITA to fit this all together? I haven't had my *** kicked quite enough yet it seems.

obligatory photo:

o ya i learned something. see the bitty hole in the flexplate. put that OPPOSITE the drain plug on the converter. Mark that corner on the flywheel and converter where u can see it from the inspection cover. and you are in like flynn when ready to bolt the converter to the flexplate.

 

[68PK21 440.6bbl]

If you didn't specify to replace the studs why would he?

Generally when I would send a set of heads out I remove any studs just because I know it will make it easier for the machinist to handle the heads and in the case of motorcycles that has dowel sleeves I remove them cuz if'a you don't ya my not get the head back with them in it. (that did bite me in the *** once thou).

Even back decades ago if the heads are coming off for a valve job most likely the studs are toast (GM) anyways.
This is where your torch gets put to use, torch the exhaust pipe to manifold studs/bolts off, torch the head stud nuts off, couple of well placed raps with a brass hammer, manifold will come off, then heat the block side (not exhaust port side) red hot pea size dot and work the stud out with a pair of vice grips.
When all has cooled down run a cleaning tap down with lube, blow it out with compressed air and your done the fastest way without the un-ezouts leaving the toolbox draw.

 

[CBODY67]

"un-ezouts" has been my experience. If you're trying to get a broken stud out, drilling a hole and then "expanding" that hole with something tapped into it, putting more clamping force on the threads which are already resisting things, can be a recipe for a broken EZOut "bit", even on soft carb studs. My experience. IF the threads had been "loose", then the stud wouldn't have broken off in the first place, the way I see it.

CBODY67