Pushbutton A727 shavings in pan...

Sir Dodge alot

Sir Dodge alot

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Hello and well met.

It's been 200 or so miles after I rebuilt the Pushbutton A727 and have dropped the pan multiple times to check the health of the transmission.

The shavings in the pan are silver in color.
(planetary gears/bushings?)

Is the amount of shavings acceptable as "normal" wear?
I'm not seeing the pile growing in size after dropping the pan at least 3 times now.

Still shifts fine, but maybe the shifts are slightly softer? (Softer shifts when up to operating temperature)
(Break-in Wear on the bands getting accustomed to daily status?)

There were fuzzies on the filter end, clutch material?

Appreciate any inputs.
Thanks.

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Sir Dodge alot said:
Hello and well met.

It's been 200 or so miles after I rebuilt the Pushbutton A727 and have dropped the pan multiple times to check the health of the transmission.

The shavings in the pan are silver in color.
(planetary gears/bushings?)

Is the amount of shavings acceptable as "normal" wear?
I'm not seeing the pile growing in size after dropping the pan at least 3 times now.

Still shifts fine, but maybe the shifts are slightly softer? (Softer shifts when up to operating temperature)
(Break-in Wear on the bands getting accustomed to daily status?)

There were fuzzies on the filter end, clutch material?

Appreciate any inputs.
Thanks.

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View attachment 675537
Click to expand...
So you haven’t cleaned that stuff out each time you dropped the pan? It’s been a long time since I changed a trans filter. But, that looks pretty typical of what we used to see in the pan,but that was after 50k (or more) miles. I don’t know how long it it took for wear deposits to collect on a new rebuild. But, GM actually put a magnet in the pan to collect shavings, although those might be more coarse than we used to see. Will they cut your skin? The fluid looks real good. But of course it should. Mopar fluid would turn orange and smell like burnt peanuts if regular maintenance wasn’t followed. Sorry, but that’s all I can contribute
 
I agree with @myskin , in that you should clean the inside of the pan.

The pictures show what appears to be almost grinding dust. My experience with transmission pan gunk is that it is more like extremely fine sand, and if there’s clutch material in it, it will be dark, almost black in color.

Good luck with your repair.
 
myskin said:
So you haven’t cleaned that stuff out each time you dropped the pan? It’s been a long time since I changed a trans filter. But, that looks pretty typical of what we used to see in the pan,but that was after 50k (or more) miles. I don’t know how long it it took for wear deposits to collect on a new rebuild. But, GM actually put a magnet in the pan to collect shavings, although those might be more coarse than we used to see. Will they cut your skin? The fluid looks real good. But of course it should. Mopar fluid would turn orange and smell like burnt peanuts if regular maintenance wasn’t followed. Sorry, but that’s all I can contribute
Click to expand...
Correct, I realize not cleaning out the pan Everytime I pulled the pan would be counter intuitive, but just needed to confirm the fact that the pile is not "growing" in a sense, I do have another in line filter that should take care of any other smaller particles smaller than the shavings.

Thank you, appreciate you chiming in.
Any feedback is appreciated.
 
3175375 said:
I agree with @myskin , in that you should clean the inside of the pan.

The pictures show what appears to be almost grinding dust. My experience with transmission pan gunk is that it is more like extremely fine sand, and if there’s clutch material in it, it will be dark, almost black in color.

Good luck with your repair.
Click to expand...
Ok, apologies if this seemed like an obvious answer regarding cleaning out the pan.
#face palm

Thank you very much for the feedback.
Will clean out the pan next time.
 
That is not normal for 200 miles after rebuild. That is usually what I see when someone starts to have issues with the trans.

Can I get some more information? During the rebuild was the trans completely disassembled? Did you change the torque converter or flush it? Did you flush the lines? If you answer no to any of the above it could be debris from before the rebuild. If you answered yes you may have another rebuild in your future.
 
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Sir Dodge alot said:
Still shifts fine, but maybe the shifts are slightly softer? (Softer shifts when up to operating temperature)
(Break-in Wear on the bands getting accustomed to daily status?)
Click to expand...

Unlike an engine, automatic transmissions do not need to "break in". If your shifts are getting softer that is an issue, debris in the pan is an issue, the two together, after only 200 miles, tell me you probably have issues with the trans. If I were you I would clean the debris out of the pan change the fluid again, including draining the TC (if yours has a drain plug) and flushing the lines. One trick I learned years ago on cars that do not have a drain plug on the TC is disconnect the coolant return line from the trans and put the end in a drain pan. Start the engine in neutral and let the pump push out the fluid out of the trans. You will not get it all but will get more than just draining the pan. Inspect that fluid to see if it has "glitter" in it. Fill the fluid, let it warm up before checking the level (in neutral) the last time. FYI 727's don't pump fluid in park so you need to check in neutral. Then take it out and run it normal and under hard throttle to see if it works normal for a few days. If it works normally you could be OK, if it doesn't drop the pan again and inspect, if you have any debris I would plan on another rebuild before taking any road trips.

I have seen rebuilds fail because of the debris left over in the lines and TC because they were not cleaned, or replaced, in the rebuild process.
 
MONC440 said:
That is not normal for 200 miles after rebuild. That is usually what I see when someone starts to have issues with the trans.

Can I get some more information? During the rebuild was the trans completely disassembled? Did you change the torque converter or flush it? Did you flush the lines? If you answer no to any of the above it could be debris from before the rebuild. If you answered yes you may have another rebuild in your future.
Click to expand...
Hi there.

Yes, I have got a new Torque converter from Hughes performance torque converters.

And temporarily, I am running high pressure rubber cooler hoses routing from the trans to the radiator, and to the auxiliary cooler then back to the trans.

Thank you for the input, unfortunate to hear as the trans is shifting nominally. (Mostly)
 
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MONC440 said:
Unlike an engine, automatic transmissions do not need to "break in". If your shifts are getting softer that is an issue, debris in the pan is an issue, the two together, after only 200 miles, tell me you probably have issues with the trans. If I were you I would clean the debris out of the pan change the fluid again, including draining the TC (if yours has a drain plug) and flushing the lines. One trick I learned years ago on cars that do not have a drain plug on the TC is disconnect the coolant return line from the trans and put the end in a drain pan. Start the engine in neutral and let the pump push out the fluid out of the trans. You will not get it all but will get more than just draining the pan. Inspect that fluid to see if it has "glitter" in it. Fill the fluid, let it warm up before checking the level (in neutral) the last time. FYI 727's don't pump fluid in park so you need to check in neutral. Then take it out and run it normal and under hard throttle to see if it works normal for a few days. If it works normally you could be OK, if it doesn't drop the pan again and inspect, if you have any debris I would plan on another rebuild before taking any road trips.

I have seen rebuilds fail because of the debris left over in the lines and TC because they were not cleaned, or replaced, in the rebuild process.
Click to expand...
I realize this is throwing a wrench into the mix, the softer shifts may have been due to fiddling with the kickdown linkage to get right.
And also have been adjusting the Low/reverse band.
Not exactly sure if my "fiddling" was a potential cause to the soft shifts, just some thoughts.

The cooler lines are high pressure hoses placed temporarily, I can get rid of the hoses and place new hoses, then after I can get some steel cooler lines.

Gotcha, will get to this ASAP.
Thank you very much so far.
Will post of the results in a while.
 
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Dropped the pan, and the "pile" has not changed but what the hell is that??
2 O-ring looking objects in the pan.

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Ran the engine to drain/pump the Torque converter fluid out VIA transmission cooler return line.

Small silver "glitter" in the drain pan. Really small though, not like the flakes that were in the pile previously.

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Ran out of time today & the local stores don't even carry ATF+4, sometimes I'm not even sure why the local parts stores are even called
"PARTS STORE" all they sell is air freshener's and the like, unbelievable.
#PartialRantOver

Will drive a spare car out to get some ATF+4 a few further miles out of town for it.
 
Next day: ATF+4 in the transmission.
Still shifts like it used to but sometimes soft/sometimes firm shifts.

I reckon KD linkage adjustment is in order next.
Anywho, I'll check on the ATF again next time I drop the pan.

Won't be funny if the "pile" of shavings reappeared.
 
Sir Dodge alot said:
Next day: ATF+4 in the transmission.
Still shifts like it used to but sometimes soft/sometimes firm shifts.

I reckon KD linkage adjustment is in order next.
Anywho, I'll check on the ATF again next time I drop the pan.

Won't be funny if the "pile" of shavings reappeared.
Click to expand...
Sounds like you ae on the right track. Make sure you get the kickdown adjusted properly and keep us informed on your progress.
 
Apologies on the late repost, I've been having trouble locating a 2 hole filter, if necessary I'll just drop the pan change the fluid & gasket.
The current filter in place does not look bad at all.

And good news is that the transmission shifts firmer than ever, still sounds the same with the trademark A727 whine in 1st gear.
I say whine, but it's the same noise from before I even rebuilt the transmission.

Edit: I have found a filter I can use.
Wix #58658
 
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