Question about a stuck 326 Dodge engine

[WikedPlymouth]

I posted this in the forward look forum but figured it would help to post here. The engine in my 1959 Dodge Coronet is stuck. I started about a week ago putting a 50/50 mix of diesel fuel and ATF in the cylinders to lossen it up. The story behind the engine is that the original owner parked the car in 1976 and took 7 of the 8 spark plugs out. The car was left in a garage for the next 45 years. John at Big M Auto bought the car 3 years ago and towed it too his place. The plugs were never put back in. I bought the car about 2 weeks ago and started working on it. I checked the engine oil and it was very black but did not have any water or debri in it. Over the week of adding fluid to the cylinders I've not had much luck. I did get the engine to rotate about a half inch but that the one thing that has me confused....if I use a prybar on the flex plate teeth from under the engine and try to rotate the engine counter clockwise the flex plate AND crank pulley will rotate counter clockwise about a 1/2 inch....BUT ONLY if someone is pushing on a breaker bar (on the crank bolt) and going CLOCKWISE. Makes no sense to me. If no one pushes on the breaker bar, I can't move the flex plate at all. If someone pushes on the breaker bar in the SAME direction as I'm prying the flex plate...nothing happens. Can't wrap my head around the fact that 2 opposite direction forces get the crank to move.

Another member suggested a spiral cracked crank...but the flex plate and crank pulley do rotate the same direction. Any ideas??

 

[CBODY67]

I suspect that the only way the engine will ever be "right" is to take it out and get it rebuilt. That's where you're going to end up so heading in that direction FIRST might save time and angst in trying to do otherwise. If the pistons are stuck, so might several valves.

Might pull the heads off, get a wire brush on a drill motor, and start cleaning the rust out of the cylinders and combustion chambers. Wear a good mask, too! Putting some good "covering" over the lifter valley also. This way, while the heads are at the machine shop, you can be de-rusting other things and getting the rotating assy to rotate again.

Drain the crankcase of what's in there and then pour new oil over the lifter valley and camshaft/lifters while everything is open.

Do a new timing chain, too.

With the rotating assy now rotating well again, you can then pressurize the oil system while brearer-barring the motor over. Then spinning the motor with the starter. There might still be some accumulations on the piston sides above the compression rings, but those might come out as the engine is gently run initially. Which would hopefully free-up the other rings, too.

As in the old days, if the engine has good oil pressure at hot idle, you can delay the rest of the full rebuild for later.

Just some thoughts,
CBODY67

 

[Lefty71]

Gotta agree with cbody67 in the post above. Praying it starts turning over so you can ignore what it looks like inside that motor after 48 years is probably the wrong approach.

 

[WikedPlymouth]

I agree, the motor may eventually need a good rebuild. However, part of the adventure for me is seeing if I can get an old engine running. I was able to get the 394 in my Oldsmobile running after siting for 23 years and the 318 in my Belvedere running after sitting 27 years. Both run surprisingly well, don't overheat and have good oil pressure. Rebuilds are probably in their future, but at least they do run and move themselves around.

As for the 326, I have a good inspection camera on order so will be taking a look at the cylinders this weekend. If they look all rusty then I will pull the motor and take it apart. Just confused by that crankshaft movement. Thanks.

 

[Hap]

I've used Marvel Mystery Oil in the past with good results . A buddy had a 39 Plymouth with a stuck motor . We used a lot of it , but the motor came free and ran like a top .
Just an idea for you .
Hap .

 

[Jakter]

Acetone and ATF is an excellent rust-buster.
I've read of people putting boiling water in the block to break the bond but have never tried it.
No idea of the crankshaft movement.

"Machinist's Workshop" recently published information on various penetrating oils. The magazine reports they tested these products for "break out "torque" on rusted nuts and bolts. A test was made of popular penetrating oils, with the unit of merit being the torque required to remove the nut from a "scientifically rusted" bolt Average torque load to loosen nut:
No Oil used ........................516 foot pounds
WD-40 ..................... ........238 foot pounds
PB Blaster .........................214 foot pounds
Liquid Wrench ......................127 foot pounds
Kano Kriol .........................106 foot pounds
ATF/Acetone mix...................... 53 foot pounds
The ATF/Acetone mix is a "home brew" mix of 50/50 automatic transmission fluid and acetone.
Note this "home brew" released bolts better than any commercial product in this one particular test.
Our local machinist group mixed up a batch, and we all now use it with equally good results. Note also that Liquid Wrench is almost as good as Kroil for 20% of the price.
ATF/Acetone mix is best, but you can also use ATF and lacquer thinner in a 50/50 mix. ATF

The above copied from another forum.

​

 

[Vinny]

I posted this in the forward look forum but figured it would help to post here. The engine in my 1959 Dodge Coronet is stuck. I started about a week ago putting a 50/50 mix of diesel fuel and ATF in the cylinders to lossen it up. The story behind the engine is that the original owner parked the car in 1976 and took 7 of the 8 spark plugs out. The car was left in a garage for the next 45 years. John at Big M Auto bought the car 3 years ago and towed it too his place. The plugs were never put back in. I bought the car about 2 weeks ago and started working on it. I checked the engine oil and it was very black but did not have any water or debri in it. Over the week of adding fluid to the cylinders I've not had much luck. I did get the engine to rotate about a half inch but that the one thing that has me confused....if I use a prybar on the flex plate teeth from under the engine and try to rotate the engine counter clockwise the flex plate AND crank pulley will rotate counter clockwise about a 1/2 inch....BUT ONLY if someone is pushing on a breaker bar (on the crank bolt) and going CLOCKWISE. Makes no sense to me. If no one pushes on the breaker bar, I can't move the flex plate at all. If someone pushes on the breaker bar in the SAME direction as I'm prying the flex plate...nothing happens. Can't wrap my head around the fact that 2 opposite direction forces get the crank to move.

Another member suggested a spiral cracked crank...but the flex plate and crank pulley do rotate the same direction. Any ideas??

Mouse nests in the cylinders, perhaps? It happened to someone I know.

 

[fury fan]

if I use a prybar on the flex plate teeth from under the engine and try to rotate the engine counter clockwise the flex plate AND crank pulley will rotate counter clockwise about a 1/2 inch....BUT ONLY if someone is pushing on a breaker bar (on the crank bolt) and going CLOCKWISE.

When the person on hte breaker bar is pushing clockwise - is that from their POV, or yours at the rear of the engine?

Keep in mind an engine can also get stuck due to other rusted parts besides piston rings.
If you are turning the engine the rotation of when it is when running, a stuck valve can stop your rotation. (if you then reverse rotation, the pushrod/rocker simply become loose)

For as long as this one has been sitting, you need to do some disassembly to get the crud out FIRST.
It does no good to get an engine un-stuck, fire it up, and damage it with debris. ( I unstuck a 440 once and found corn kernels in the intake ports, just waiting to cause trouble)
Also - any lubricant you put in there may become a paste when the cylinder wall rust gets rubbed on by the rings.

If you have compressed air available, remove the rocker arms and see if all the valves get closed. Check with a straightedge.
If so - get hte valves closed and blow-gun all the crap out of the ports, both intake and exhaust.
Blow-gun into the sparkplug hole, to clean as much out there as you can.
Thread your airhose in with a sparkplug adapter, then open the valves for each cylinder somehow - this gets any tiny pieces that might be pinched between valve and seat.
Yes - it's a lot of cleaning. But you'll be glad you did.

If you do the ATF/acetone thing in that one cylinder - you can use your air hose to hopefully pressure-push the lube around/past the rings.

 

[CBODY67]

Of course, you could just pull the engine and put it on an engine stand so you could take the heads off easier and also drain and pull the pan to get a better look at things. Might not want to do that for $$$ reasons, but that's where you'll probably end up anyway. Plus the fact the car might then be considered "junk" rather than "under restoration" by some people. Keeping the car out of open sight can help with that issue.

MUCH easier to get things cleaned out well with the engine on an engine stand and look at everything that needs to be looked at, too.

Enjoy!
CBODY67

 

[Jakter]

Probably not your problem but pull your starter just to take it out of the equation.

To explain, I had the nose cone break off the starter on a flathead 6cyl.
It made a heck of a racket when I started it.
When I pulled the starter off the broken nose cone was loose between the flywheel and the bell housing.

I don't know how it didn't wedge itself where it was But I turned the engine off as soon as I heard the noise.

 

[kmccabe56]

I posted this in the forward look forum but figured it would help to post here. The engine in my 1959 Dodge Coronet is stuck. I started about a week ago putting a 50/50 mix of diesel fuel and ATF in the cylinders to lossen it up. The story behind the engine is that the original owner parked the car in 1976 and took 7 of the 8 spark plugs out. The car was left in a garage for the next 45 years. John at Big M Auto bought the car 3 years ago and towed it too his place. The plugs were never put back in. I bought the car about 2 weeks ago and started working on it. I checked the engine oil and it was very black but did not have any water or debri in it. Over the week of adding fluid to the cylinders I've not had much luck. I did get the engine to rotate about a half inch but that the one thing that has me confused....if I use a prybar on the flex plate teeth from under the engine and try to rotate the engine counter clockwise the flex plate AND crank pulley will rotate counter clockwise about a 1/2 inch....BUT ONLY if someone is pushing on a breaker bar (on the crank bolt) and going CLOCKWISE. Makes no sense to me. If no one pushes on the breaker bar, I can't move the flex plate at all. If someone pushes on the breaker bar in the SAME direction as I'm prying the flex plate...nothing happens. Can't wrap my head around the fact that 2 opposite direction forces get the crank to move.

Another member suggested a spiral cracked crank...but the flex plate and crank pulley do rotate the same direction. Any ideas??

Leaving the plugs out for years has probably done a really good job of seizing the rings to the bores. Years ago I bought a '56 Dodge with a 315 that was seized. (Basically same engine with .050" smaller bores). Two rod bearings had welded themselves to one pin. Some moron had used adhesive on the stamped steel laminate head gaskets and I broke to bumper jacks prying the heads off. Once the engine was really apart, I had to bore it out .040, put a new cam in it (15 lobes just doesn't cut it) and turned the mains down .020" and the pins down .040". Once I got it back together and went to prime it I got all sorts of oil pissing out past an oil pan bolt 2" in font of the oil filter. Turns out there was a giant void in the casting that went straight to the high pressure line from the oil pump out to the filter. Once I sealed the bolt hole, the engine actually was fine. But the whole teardown, rebuild and shakedown took 8-9 months.

Because these engines are built with a road draft tube and not a PCV valve, do yourself an ENORMOUS favor and put in a small spacer plate under the carb (don't forget to check aircleaner clearance to the hood) and fit a PCV valve where the road draft tube connects to the right valve cover. Your engine will be VERY greatful.

 

[WikedPlymouth]

Finally decided to throw in the towel and disassemble the engine. I've not had any luck in 3 weeks of soaking the pistons. The fluid does drain down some but not enough to make any difference. My only question is since the engine is seized I can't turn the engine to unbolt the torque converter. Was thinking I could just remove the 4 bolts holding the transmission bell housing to the transmission so I can pull the engine, torque converter and transmission bell housing in one pull? Then I can try to remove the torque converter. Thoughts???

 

[fury fan]

That's your only option (that I know of).

 

[Jakter]

Can't you leave the bell housing on the transmission and pull the engine clear of the transmission shaft?

 

[WikedPlymouth]

I think the transmission bellhousing has to come with it. I thought these engines/transmissions had a hidden bell housing bolt on the inside which was really tough to get too.

 

[WikedPlymouth]

Another member here offered me a good long block engine so planning on dropping that in for now rather than rebuild the current engine. I may rebuild the original engine at a later date. Someone on another forum said I should install a 383 and torqueflight. Is the 383 a drop in replacement? I have a 1965 383 2 barrel already that is in great condition and never really considered it as an option.

 

[polara66hardtop]

the 383 in 65' is not the same 383 as the pre_63 383, and the polyhead bellhousing/trans is all different, as in the poly head world.

 

[57fury440]

If you have the 383 with the tranny it came with you can install it as an assembly. It will not work with your pushbuttons if it is a 1965 or newer engine and transmission. Take apart the original engine first to see what it needs. It may not be that bad.

 

[WikedPlymouth]

Thanks for the comments. I'm hoping to find time this week to take apart the original engine and just see how bad it is. I will post pics once I do. Thanks.

 

[WikedPlymouth]

Was able to pull the intake, distributor etc today. Tomorrow will pull the heads. Looks pretty gummy in the engine...especially the exhaust cross over. Definitely best I'm pulling the engine.