Wile E Coyote
Super Genius
Does anyone know of an online source or downloadable product to check the mechanics hours to remove and replace (R&R) parts for 60's, 70's, 80's vehicles?
Thanks,
Ron
Thanks,
Ron
R&R Parts Guide
- Thread starter Wile E Coyote
- Start date
traintech55
Senior Member
I do believe Chiltons had a labor guide. The factory ones, especially GM were notoriously low on times.
dealer flat rate books. they changed by make and year , i have no idea where to find them.
mrfury68
Senior Member
The factory ones were even lower when it came to warranty work time.
68PK21 440.6bbl
Old Man with a Hat
I use to have Motors books. (sniped from Amazon)
Many can be found here at insane prices. (use the force)
Labor Time Flat Rate Estimating Guides by Chilton & Motor
Many can be found here at insane prices. (use the force)
Labor Time Flat Rate Estimating Guides by Chilton & Motor
68PK21 440.6bbl
Old Man with a Hat
You could try this online do-hickey.
Instant Auto Repair Estimates - Free Online Estimator | YourMechanic
Heck I'm gonna go back into the business...
Instant Auto Repair Estimates - Free Online Estimator | YourMechanic
Heck I'm gonna go back into the business...
Last edited:
stubs300
Senior Member
cbarge
World Famous Barge in a Budget
As a service advisor in a busy 16 bay shop, we do not have the labour books anymore and our online provider does have access to old car labour guides.
Typucally I call them and send me the times via e mail or fax.......for a fee of course.
For my own personal use I have an old Chrysler Dealer Labor book.
1967 to 1972.
Typucally I call them and send me the times via e mail or fax.......for a fee of course.
For my own personal use I have an old Chrysler Dealer Labor book.
1967 to 1972.
stubs300
Senior Member
Do they just use a flat rate like a lot of other places now, regardless of the job??
I know that depending on area that the rates are different, I get that!
But if it's a $100@ hr. lets say, and I know that they round the time up to the next hour, $100 labor rate to do a 30 minute oil change is highway robbery.
Newport 66
Old Man with a Hat
Just curious...how valid would a flat rate manual be for working on cars that are 40-60 years old? Are you looking for references or historical info? Looking to base current repair times on the manuals?
Chilton did publish yearly books, updated to the most recent year of publication, with labor times (including factory time, which always was lower than "Chilton Time" by about 20%. There were also representative parts prices and part numbers, too. Quite interesting to look at!
Of course, there's also AllData, but I'm not sure how far back they go. A fee-based subsctiption, though.
In the world of "flat rate", there will be times which are significantly longer and times which are significantly shorter, just as in warranty time, too. Like the ups and downs in the stock market, the general trend is usually positive, over time.
As in modern times, having the CORRECT tools (and enough of them!) can be key to ultimate profitability for the tech AND the shop. THEN, knowing how and when to use them, too!
Rather than seek an online subscription (or free) service, might be best in the long run to find the needed books and use them for the labor times. Or possibly find them on a CD? If "electronic" make sure that why you get is really accurate and what you need.
Just some thoughts,
CBODY67
Of course, there's also AllData, but I'm not sure how far back they go. A fee-based subsctiption, though.
In the world of "flat rate", there will be times which are significantly longer and times which are significantly shorter, just as in warranty time, too. Like the ups and downs in the stock market, the general trend is usually positive, over time.
As in modern times, having the CORRECT tools (and enough of them!) can be key to ultimate profitability for the tech AND the shop. THEN, knowing how and when to use them, too!
Rather than seek an online subscription (or free) service, might be best in the long run to find the needed books and use them for the labor times. Or possibly find them on a CD? If "electronic" make sure that why you get is really accurate and what you need.
Just some thoughts,
CBODY67
cbarge
World Famous Barge in a Budget
When working on anything in the shop,if the labour guide says 1 hour,we charge 1 hour.
However factor in years of rust,etc if we run into any difficulty it is straight time by the hour after what the book time calls for.
Also a lot of book times do not include having to remove additional items outa the way over and above the actual labor to re re the part,so to speak.
A lot of people just dont get it when it takes extra time to remove a splash shield to do an oil change,so we dont offer 10 minutes express oil changes. Our oil changes are menu priced--not by the hour.
I take each case individually since not all cars--and owners--were created equally,LOL!!
cbarge
World Famous Barge in a Budget
As far as I am concerned,as an enthusiast, just a good historical reference.
Our cars are 40-50 years old and you cannot use the old labor guide books as a bible.
It is not black and white like a modern daily driver.
As I mentioned,may need extra time to free up rusted or siezed bolts and/or parts.
Not to mention things can snowball as you find something else along the way.
A lot of shops are leary or flat out refuse to work on old cars in fear of the car turning into a lumpy headache tying up a hoist.
That's when you do your networking and find a shop that welcomes old cars or may have a mechanic that loves working on old cars.
Newport 66
Old Man with a Hat
Thanks and I agree with your comments.
cbarge
World Famous Barge in a Budget
So just for fun,
Anybody wondering about the book time to do anything on our beloved C's I can look it up in the book I shown in post #8,LOL!!
Anybody wondering about the book time to do anything on our beloved C's I can look it up in the book I shown in post #8,LOL!!
Factory "warranty" times were periodically suspect, at least in the GM realm of things. If a new platform came out, the labor times might be a little "forgiving" in that first model year, but would be trimmed-back as time progressed and the techs were supposed to learn more about how to best do them.
Allegedly, the "time and motion studies" that led to the warranty times were supposed to have been conducted in a room with ALL of the tools needed to perform that particular labor operation, by an experienced technician, as everybody watched. That part might make sense, but how the financial people might have tweaked things later, might be variable. Spending time to go to the parts counter was not considered, I suspect.
In the '70s, "Chilton Time" was usually about 20% greater than "GM Warranty Time". Which might account for techs seeing things they hadn't seen before or had been "factory trained" (by the OEM) to perform. There were usually ":add-ons" to account for the added complexity of certain options being added, for the basic time.
Then there were the "flat rate mechanics" that did everything they could to short-cut how they did the repairs. Not following the complete factory repair sequences, but still getting things done. In some shops, that sort of thing was not permitted, kinowingly, until that repair became a "worked on before" or "shop come-back" situation.
In the later 1990s, we had a transmission tech that seemed to be doing good. From what we saw on the back parts counter, he never came back wanting more parts later on. BUT when he went on a week's vacation, his secret came to light. He didn't always use all of the parts in the OEM rebuild kits. When the repair had issues, he had the needed parts in his tool box, installed them, and all was good . . . which is what the shop foreman figured out during that week.
With the hard books or later microfiche, we could look back to see if a time had been adjusted over the months/years. In the late '90s GM went to a CD/in-house server parts and labor time system. Then it all went "Internet", with no way to see what things used to be in the labor times area.
On the GM side of things, it also seemed that when labor times might have been adjusted, it ALSO related to the financial health of the corporation. If they were facing a time of increasing costs, one QUICK way to help that was to trim warranty labor times about 10% or so, it seemed.
Just some thoughts and observations,
CBODY67
Allegedly, the "time and motion studies" that led to the warranty times were supposed to have been conducted in a room with ALL of the tools needed to perform that particular labor operation, by an experienced technician, as everybody watched. That part might make sense, but how the financial people might have tweaked things later, might be variable. Spending time to go to the parts counter was not considered, I suspect.
In the '70s, "Chilton Time" was usually about 20% greater than "GM Warranty Time". Which might account for techs seeing things they hadn't seen before or had been "factory trained" (by the OEM) to perform. There were usually ":add-ons" to account for the added complexity of certain options being added, for the basic time.
Then there were the "flat rate mechanics" that did everything they could to short-cut how they did the repairs. Not following the complete factory repair sequences, but still getting things done. In some shops, that sort of thing was not permitted, kinowingly, until that repair became a "worked on before" or "shop come-back" situation.
In the later 1990s, we had a transmission tech that seemed to be doing good. From what we saw on the back parts counter, he never came back wanting more parts later on. BUT when he went on a week's vacation, his secret came to light. He didn't always use all of the parts in the OEM rebuild kits. When the repair had issues, he had the needed parts in his tool box, installed them, and all was good . . . which is what the shop foreman figured out during that week.
With the hard books or later microfiche, we could look back to see if a time had been adjusted over the months/years. In the late '90s GM went to a CD/in-house server parts and labor time system. Then it all went "Internet", with no way to see what things used to be in the labor times area.
On the GM side of things, it also seemed that when labor times might have been adjusted, it ALSO related to the financial health of the corporation. If they were facing a time of increasing costs, one QUICK way to help that was to trim warranty labor times about 10% or so, it seemed.
Just some thoughts and observations,
CBODY67
cbarge
World Famous Barge in a Budget
Even online guides I use everyday show both warranty and real times,LOL!
.4 warranty,.6 in reality. for example
stubs300
Senior Member
Will you take into account the difference between yesterdays dollar and now? LOL
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