Ruins of Detroit

[amazinblue82]

The so-called "Highway" revolts. I didn't know there were a lot of these dustups around the county. Interesting link listing them by State/City in US.

Highway revolts in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Highway revolts in the United States have occurred mainly in cities and regions, including Atlanta, Baltimore, Boston, Cleveland, Houston, Kansas City, Long Island, Los Angeles, Memphis, Milwaukee, Minneapolis, New Orleans, New York, Philadelphia, Phoenix, Pittsburgh, Portland, Sacramento, San Francisco, Seattle, St. Petersburg, Tampa, and Washington, D.C.

In many cities, there remain unused highways, abruptly terminating freeway alignments, and short stretches of freeway in the middle of nowhere, all of which are evidence of larger projects which were never completed.

In the post-World War II economic expansion, there was a major drive to build a freeway network in the United States, including (but not limited to) the Interstate Highway System. Design and construction began in earnest in the 1950s, and many cities (as well as rural areas) were subjected to the bulldozer.

However, many of the proposed freeway routes were drawn up without considering local interests; in many cases, the construction of the freeway system was considered a regional (or national) issue that trumped local concerns.​

 

[amazinblue82]

The Book Cadillac Hotel in Detroit. 1924 Post Card Photo

This is a long story. I wont load up this post with all that content but put two really good links below where anyone interested can study this one in GREAT detail.

Book-Cadillac Hotel: History
Book-Cadillac Hotel — Historic Detroit

The Short Story.

The Book Cadillac, built in 1924, was one of the finest hotels in the World at that time. Fast forward through time, after it finally closed in the 1980's, it became an unoccupied, hulking, vandalized, rat infested, water-damaged, constant reminder of how far Detroit had fallen.

Then a bunch of failed development deals, any number of dates with the wrecking ball, humiliating "lipstick-on-a-pig" awnings put on it to try to hide it from city visitors, etc.

Over 20 years of ALL that torturous, agonizing, stuff and then FINALLY it all came together and it was brought back from the dead.

BEFORE the RESTO

AFTER (those same rooms shown above renovated)

 

[tallhair]

classy joint

 

[amazinblue82]

classy joint

it really is.. they (the developers) did a good job.

several floors are residential too, and there is three-floor penthouse condo (4,500 square feet) that was the first to top $1M asking price in Detroit (similar-sized pads in NYC would top $15M for sure).

some of the spectacular (stunning handwork in wood and stone) craftmanship in the 1924 original hotel was lost as it couldnt be duplicated at any price. but if you saw (and smelled) this place in about the year 2000 (I did and I will not describe what we saw in there), you would have sworn all was lost.

they really did great with it - i know I said that twice

 

[commando1]

sorry. its because i didnt call it the right thing.

i googled it..it was called the "Inner Belt". Got canceled. Public uproar. etc.

A short history of the Inner Belt | The Cambridge Historical Society

The Inner Belt was a proposed eight-lane highway that would have connected U.S. Route I-93 to U.S. Route I-90 and I-95 through a ring road through Somerville and Central Square and across the B.U. Bridge and beyond through Boston to the Southeast Expressway. A group of city planners, community activists, universities, and politicians formed a coalition to block the construction of this road. Their actions preserved much of Cambridge and attracted national attention as one of the earliest community efforts that blocked an infrastructure development. It became the rallying cry of many later political movements in Cambridge. ​

my question was what was the skinny on that project from a local citizen's view ... guess it was gonna be "bad" hence the cancellation? Picture is said to be the stub ramp built before project got canned.

View attachment 83180

The original plan for the Interstate system was to (please stay with me on this one):
1. I-95 coming up from the South, and I-95 coming down from the North to connect in downtown Boston. As it turned out, I-95 coming up from the South, ended in a suberb South of Boston and I-95 coming down from the North ended in a superb North of Boston.
2. Rt. 128, a circumferential highway around and outside of Boston, became the link tween the two termini.
The "Inner Belt" was supposed to be a small circumferential Interstate (I-695) around Downtown Boston and was originally designed to connect the two.
3. The period where I-695 was supposed to be built was an era when people finally started to revolt against eminent domain taking over neighborhoods, tearing down the residential areas of the lower blue collar working class, and paving them over so the upper class from the burbs could move swiftly into Downtown which was seeing MASSIVE (and needed) urban renewal.

The cancelation of I-695, the Inner belt, marked the end of deviding up Boston and segregating neighbors forever. ALL the land that was stolen taken, razed, and stripped bare, then became fresh land for the neighborhoods that were going to be split up to revitalize.

Oh.... I have stories about Massachusetts highways that would fill volumes.

 

[amazinblue82]

The original plan for the Interstate system was to (please stay with me on this one):
1. I-95 coming up from the South, and I-95 coming down from the North to connect in downtown Boston. As it turned out, I-95 coming up from the South, ended in a suberb South of Boston and I-95 coming down from the North ended in a superb North of Boston.
2. Rt. 128, a circumferential highway around and outside of Boston, became the link tween the two termini.
The "Inner Belt" was supposed to be a small circumferential Interstate (I-695) around Downtown Boston and was originally designed to connect the two.
3. The period where I-695 was supposed to be built was an era when people finally started to revolt against eminent domain taking over neighborhoods, tearing down the residential areas of the lower blue collar working class, and paving them over so the upper class from the burbs could move swiftly into Downtown which was seeing MASSIVE (and needed) urban renewal.

The cancelation of I-695, the Inner belt, marked the end of deviding up Boston and segregating neighbors forever. ALL the land that was stolen taken, razed, and stripped bare, then became fresh land for the neighborhoods that were going to be split up to revitalize.

Oh.... I have stories about Massachusetts highways that would fill volumes.

Ah yes, your number three is what a group of Cambridge citizens (nerdy academic types like me) -- over drinks -- were STILL steaming about 20+ years after it all went down. almost verbatim

seems you are one local who liked how it all turned out (what went forward/what didnt) on the Inner Belt part of this plan -- mostly?

 

[commando1]

From the South

From the North

Ah yes, your number three is what a group of Cambridge citizens (nerdy academic types like me) -- over drinks -- were STILL steaming about 20+ years after it all went down. almost verbatim

seems you are one local who liked how it all turned out (what went forward/what didnt) on the Inner Belt part of this plan -- mostly?

Absolutely. I saw blight torn down, neighborhoods that were carved up develope a rich identity of their own, and revitalization that otherwise never would have happened.

And The Big Dig??? Well.... I've heard, read, and seen all the arguments on how it HAD to be done (or else) and they were all true. I just haven't been convinced personally. The "Central Artery" which had highways from five different directions dump into downtown Boston was pure, pure HELL, but it also acted as a bottleneck to preventing millions of more cars from choking Boston. And that was a good thing. Made it hell to get to a Bruins game but savvy Bostonians had it figured out. Now anybody can get to a Bruins game. Lol.

 

[amazinblue82]

The "Seven Sisters" and the "Two Brothers". Detroit Edison Conners Creek Power Plant.

Another long story..but fascinating for anyone who digs these old powerplants. An Edison old timer (my age now) told me the story of this plant 35 years ago. Riveting .. again, if you dig that kinda stuff.

There's lots of info out there about this plant coming down (the "Seven Sisters" section anyway) and that is tied to Detroit's decline. That's a bit misleading and the region still seemed to need the power despite Detroit's hard times.

The plant was obsoleted because it was largely a low-pressure COAL-fired plant that didn't comply with clean air standards. Lawsuits and controversy surrounded it for a the last 20 years of its operating life.

Anyway, this Plant was a technical marvel (as was its construction) in its day and as some sources say: it powered Detroit's car industry, and a fast-growing City of Detroit, nd therefore had a significant contribution to the growth of the United States.

A powerplant that helped motorize the USA -- like Mel Allen would say: "How About That!"

Some History (courtesy Detroit Edison)

The Conners Creek power plant was built during 1913-1915, but its construction and the installation of boilers and generators was delayed by the war, with the final generator installation in 1920. Upon its completion, it had doubled the generating capacity of the Detroit Edison company.

There were 14 steam boilers, two per stack. The stacks were 352 feet tall, 17 feet in diameter. Not only were they the tallest structures in Detroit at the time, but the tallest smokestacks in the world. The plant went through a major rebuild during the 1930s, and the expansion which added the two extra stacks took place from 1949-1951.

The site chosen was the low swamp and flood land at the mouth of the small creek from which the name came. The harbor line was several hundred feet from the apparent shore of the river, with the ground between under three to five feet of water.

The test bores revealed a subsoil structure where the bedrock was as much as 125 feet below the surface. The adopted solution required wooden piles, forty to forty-five feet in length, driven into the ground so close together that they were nearly touching; they were cut off at the water line to prevent rotting.

On top of them a monolithic slab of reinforced concrete was poured: a one hundred foot mixing tower gave a continuous flow of concrete to create a solid stone mat seven feet in thickness. An awe-struck Detroit noted that this demanded 9,000 piles, 23,000 yards of concrete, and 1,257 tons of reinforcing steel.​

SOME PICS - A post card in 1965

The LANDMARK (before the "Two Brothers" were built in 1949) known to millions who lived or worked on the East Side of Detroit, and sailed the Great Lakes over 80 years.

 

[amazinblue82]

One picture worth a thousand words?

This was in the Wall Street Journal in 2013. Here it is -- so you know I am not making this up.

Say It Out Loud: Detroit!

It wasn't a slam piece. But the caption under the picture, as you can see if you click the link is:

BLOOMBERG NEWS - The GM headquarters building is seen in the distance past a run down building in Detroit, Michigan.​

I don't know how people actually interpreted this picture -- maybe most likely as the gleaming GM HQ and a bunch of crap right next to it. If that was how some people saw it, its somewhat understandable given the years of ugly headlines about Detroit - the bankruptcy, the bailouts, etc. - at that time.

BUT, if you are from here, you MAY know what you're looking at. Yes, that building in the foreground of Bloomberg pic is "run down". But the whole area around that building is called "Rivertown District". $80+ million spent, $200+ million committed, things are happening.

This picture might help put it in context. The black box I drew it is PART of Rivertown District. And there's more stuff in that picture than I can point out: a concert venue, a marina, restaurants, loft apartments, businesses, vacant lots where blight was removed, and buildings being renovated. Then I put an arrow where the photographer took the picture (left to right in photo, or from east to west) with GM HQ (upper right) in background.

This area WAS run WAY down, but its NOT staying that way. Its prime riverfront property that's being developed. I don't know what's going on with this particular building in the foreground of the Bloomberg pic .. maybe its coming down, maybe its part of the $200 million committed and will become an apartment building or something.

But in 10-20 years we may not recognize the area - in a good way - as the folks working at the turnaround are NOT just sitting there letting stuff rot away as MIGHT be inferred from that Bloomberg photo.

I learned something though from this article. Detroit city motto. 40+ years in town and I never knew it.

Great Fire of 1805 | Detroit Historical Society

Father Gabriel Richard, a French missionary, founded a school in Detroit (the predecessor of University of Michigan) in 1804 that burned down along with whole city in 1805 (if interested see link above). He coined the phrase the city later adopted.

The motto? “Speramus meliora; resurget cineribus,” or, “We hope for better things; it will arise from the ashes.”

210 years later ... that's whats happening.

Rant over .

 

[amazinblue82]

Detroit 1967 riot movie will film here — at least partly

in todays Detroit FreePress but apparently old news announced six months ago.

Kathryn Bigelow directing a story written by Mark Boal on 50th anniversary of Detroit riots in 1967.

Thats a good director-writer team (The Hurt Locker, Zero Dark Thirty) ..we'll see if its a good movie and how Detroit is depicted. Hollywood sometimes takes "dramatic license" too far

Link has a longish story attached that talks a bunch about film incentives but it does mention the "Algiers Motel Incident"..fascinating book by John Hersey.

anyway Detroit will likely be in the news continually next 18 months because of this film and other stuff surrounding the 50th anniversary of the riots.

 

[tallhair]

so, since when is Detroit in Canada?

 

[amazinblue82]

so, since when is Detroit in Canada?

View attachment 83308

caught that huh?

we thought we could get that pile of loonies we need to fix the city from Ottawa if we could swap Detroit for Windsor

I spun the photo (i dont know why) and Google Maps flipped the graphic in the Detroit River to show the border incorrectly.

So i tried again this time showing all of Rivertown in the faint red box (about 8 square miles), stretching from the GM HQ on the left (West) to the Belle Isle Bridge (where Detroit Grand Prix is held).

All that space was a bunch of industrial properties for over 100 years .. "blue collar" Detroit didn't need to see no stinkin' river -- it had stuff to build.

At the far east (right) end i point out the former Uniroyal Tire Plant site. Prime real estate and a gigantic EPA cleanup of 100 years of industrial activity -- a 28 acre site that needs 120 feet (deep) of top soil removed/remediated.

That might take a while longer given the Uniroyal Plant was razed in 1986 and its still not done. Thats a lotta dirt .. if i did my math right 140 million cubic feet.

As an aside, a current presidential candidate flew in in 1986 with an view to consider developing the Uniroyal site. He smartly passed on that deal. In 1997, he came back with a riverfront casino project. that didn't work out for different reasons, but look what we coulda had

Donald Trump's 1997 bid for Detroit casino showed off campaign style

 

[amazinblue82]

I wish I could have seen Detroit in it's prime and all these building bursting at the seems with cars and workers. I'm sure it was quite a sight.

As this thread winds down, I found some interesting video.

These may be closest we can get to the "hey day" of Detroit. Peak population (Detroit proper) was just under 2.0 million in late 1940's, and never got any higher. In 1960 census had population at about 1.6 million and in 1970 at 1.57 million.

First one in 1961, done by Ford, to celebrate the 250th anniversary of the city. Its 25 minutes long and really is well done (and of course it has lot of Ford cars in it ).



Next videos (part 1 and 2, 20 minutes in total) show Detroit was trying to get the Olympics in 1968 and in 1965 made this film. It's what you would expect .. well produced, self serving to an extreme sometimes, but hit all the points the producers wanted to make. Even JFK (a little unsettling given it was 2 years after his death) made a cameo about 6 minutes into the second video. The narrator is Jerry Cavanaugh, Mayor of Detroit from 1962 to 1970.





I didn't live here until 1971 but this is kinda the Detroit I remember physically. The rest of the story is downhill from there until the bankruptcy.

But, if f some of you (or your parents) if you are from here/visited here in the fifties and sixties may remember when Detroit bustled like this. It will never get back to that level of population in next 50 years I dont think, absent something extraordinarily good, but let' hope its on the right track .. finally.

 

[Fury440]

Well I remember Detroit back in the 50's and 60's, it was a two faced city, all great and wonderful vs an underbelly of greed and crime. It seemed all the "great" was built by one or another of the auto giants but nobody seemed to be responsible for the ongoing support. It's a great shame what has happened over the years. My son studied law at the university in Windsor across the river from Detroit and related some very graphic experiences he had across the river.
It's a shame how such a beautiful city could get so screwed up in such a short time.

 

[amazinblue82]

People all over this country are getting advanced degrees in urban planning, and sociology, and economics, etc. studying the rise and fall of cities in American (or around the world, over all of recorded time).

That doesn't necessarily make them "smart" or "right", or "dumb" or "wrong". Its just that getting into the details of a complex problem is always illuminated, one way or another, by raw data analysis and statistical tools.

For anybody wanting to slog through endless streams of data -- just the raw facts, and then decide what it seems to mean -- you might like this. Detroit gets mentioned of course -- the poster child for what can go wrong in contrast to similar conditions that did NOT end so catastrophically -- but so do many other urban areas around the USA.

Warning in advance: this link is (these kinds of economic social studies) pedantic and academic and professorial in writing style, but so instructive for any "data-philes" interested in urbanization-related topics .

Urban Decline (and Success) in the United States

 

[commando1]

If you define decline by an increase in urbanization, then there's always going to be decline. Just a matter of degree. My town:

Florida lost...
Once a sleepy road heading to The Glades.

 

[polara71]

That your uncle used to own?

 

[commando1]

My unce used to own all that land at that fork in the road around the time the vintage pic was taken. Sold it all by the late 60's. Bought it in the Depression.

 

[polara71]

How many acres?

 

[amazinblue82]

If you define decline by an increase in urbanization, then there's always going to be decline. Just a matter of degree. My town:

Florida lost...

i used an imprecise definition.

The 'decline" of an urban area usually is a loss of population (it "de-urbanizes") and the economic/social losses - "bad" things - that city experiences as a result. so then you look for causal factors that made the people leave.

to your point, i agree the reverse is true too. an area gets big/grows fast (it "urbanizes"), compared to how it was before all the people showed up, crime may increase, shortages, traffic, noise, pollution, etc,. So you can say "quality of life" has "declined" which could also be "bad things".

i guess it doesnt HAVE to be "bad", whether the city grows OR shrinks, if its managed properly. lots of examples of growing/shrinking population situations that turned out "good".